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Marc&KemUser is Offline
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Posts:35




09/13/2008 9:39 AM  
Here is something I read on a block manufactures site. No rebar ICF's. I don't know about this. It seems the material might bunch up or not be friendly to vibration during the pour. Unless you do it from the outside. Which brings up another question. Is it better from the inside or outside?
Here is the link: http://www.helixfiber.com/applications/
Anyone have any experience with this? could it really save money?

Thanks
Marc
Chris JohnsonUser is Offline
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Posts:341




09/13/2008 10:01 AM  
If you can find an engineer that will allow you to remove the rebar and just use fibers...go for it. My area that luxury doesn't exist, for that matter it doesn't even eliminate 1 oz of rebar. Depending on your location some areas allow 8" below grade without rebar, all depends on which code you are using.

Vibration should be done internally. Look back several pages on this forum, there are a number of threads that discuss this...in detail.


Chris Johnson - Pro ICF
Napa, CA
Come for the wine, Stay for the ICF work
Marc&KemUser is Offline
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Posts:35




09/14/2008 9:26 AM  

Even if we get past the building inspector, I wonder about these toothpick size objects. If you are trying to get the vibrator down through a 6" wide opening and from what I understand small vibrators are hard to come by, these toothpicks may get pushed together or clump up. Maybe not, the other area of concern is rusting. They say they are galvanized, will Galvaized toothpick size metal not corrode in a short time.

What am I saying, wire holds up, this stuff should too. I realize you would still need rebar between the cold joint (foundation and wall). I like the idea, especially after I have heard about the cost and labor of rebar.

James EggertUser is Offline
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Posts:1001




09/14/2008 11:01 AM  
SEARCH provides a myriad of info on this site.

And, no, the steel fibers do not replace "Lintel" steel!

Take Care
Jim

Design/Build/Consulting
"Not So Big" Design Proponent
dmaceldUser is Offline
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Posts:495




09/14/2008 11:06 AM  
I was considering using Helix fibers in my ICF house, so I called them to find out more. Cost savings over ordinary rebar is not an automatic given. What they wanted me to do was send them a BI approved drawing showing rebar. They would then work up a Helix fiber mix that would equal the rebar and return it with documentation to give to the BI to get his buy in. Rebar will still be required in lintels over doors and windows, unless the lintel is actually more of a wall than a beam. The reason the fibers work better in the wall than lintels is because concrete has tremendous strength in compression and no strength in tension. In the wall the rebar, or fibers, simply keeps the concrete together if there's any kind of flexing whatever. Concrete will crack. Rebar and fibers keep the adjacent pieces together so compressive loads have continuous path to the bottom. In lintels, and beams of any sort, the bottom of the lintel is in tension. Rebar carries the tension load, the concrete does not. Because of the size of the fibers it takes zillions of them to equal one rebar and at that point rebar is cheaper.

Rust isn't a great problem because you have to have air and moisture in contact with steel for it to rust, and there isn't much air and moisture inside a concrete mass, except at cracks. If you have cracks at the bottom of a beam and only have fibers in the concrete, there would be problem in that location.

Don't dismiss using Helix fibers, but don't count on saving a lot of money either. Also, vibrators with 1 to 2" heads are available. I rented one from Home Depot for my pour.

Building house - what a way to spend retirement!
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