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esgerUser is Offline
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Posts:23




07/09/2008 11:38 AM  

We are soon to start setting up ICFs for our basement foundation that will have both 6” and 8” thick walls 9’ tall.  We will be doing a monopour.  I have contacted two ready mix suppliers and one recommends their ‘standard’ 3000 psi mix for $96 a yard and the other insists their special ICF formulated (has some admixture to improve flow) pea gravel mix at $118/yard.  The concrete pumper contractor did not seem to care which one we used, but cautioned that with our monopour and the gap between the form and the bottom of the ICFs varying from ¾” to 2-3/4”, the larger aggregate is more desirable.  The concrete pumper has not done a lot of ICF jobs. 

With 33 yards of concrete, the difference between the cost of the two is significant enough that I’m inclined toward the lesser cost mix.  Any advice?

Chris JohnsonUser is Offline
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Posts:341




07/09/2008 12:25 PM  
Who engineered the project? Have the engineer review both mix designs and have him decide

Chris Johnson - Pro ICF
Napa, CA
Come for the wine, Stay for the ICF work
renangleUser is Offline
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Posts:92




07/09/2008 12:41 PM  
I would use 78 stone in the mix and pour at about a 6" slump. If the 3000 mix flows well as the pump truck driver indicated then go with it. You may want to consider using calcium in the first truck or two to allow the concrete to set up quickly.

Best of luck,

renangle
wesUser is Offline
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07/09/2008 7:54 PM  
Chris,
This isn't meant to be a knock at you or anyone. But my guess is that there is no engineer involved with this project.
A large percentage of this country does not require that residential projects be 'engineered', 'sealed', 'stamped', or any other term that would indicate that any type of design professional had anything to do with the project.
In my area, residential construction requires no govt. oversite, other than plumbing and electrical. Even in municipalitiies that have bldg. codes departments, the basic interaction is the handing over of a check to pay for the permit.

Wes Shelby
Design Systems Group
Murray KY
wandr@ainweb.net
Paul StevensUser is Offline
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Posts:144




07/09/2008 8:41 PM  
I would highly recommend using the 'ICF' mix with a 'pea' gravel. Once you start the pour and watch the concrete with the small stone flow through the webs and around the rebar you will understand why. Don't go with the regular mix with 3/4 stone whatever you do.
Paul Stevens
smartwallUser is Offline
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Posts:46




07/10/2008 8:15 AM  
I sell a mono-pour system and it sounds like you don't have a clue about pouring one . I would suggest getting some qualified help before you have a major problem on your hands.
esgerUser is Offline
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07/10/2008 11:48 AM  

Thanks all for some good advice.

Paul, your right about the webbing – I was visualizing just the rebar, and there is a whole lot more complication in an ICF’s cavity compared with a standard formed concrete wall. We will go with the pea gravel mix.  I was contacted by the $118 concrete supplier’s salesperson, and they said they’d provide the ICF mix at $98/yd + $26 fuel surcharge on three trucks.  They seemed eager to get my business, but he also has been supplying concrete for the pump guy for many years. 

Chris, there is an engineer, but he had no opinion on aggregate.  He only cautioned that we place the concrete in small lifts and don’t fill from one point -- basic stuff that concrete pump guy already told me he does as standard practice. 

Renangle, we will put a set accelerator in the first truck pour.  Thanks. 

As to the lack of ICF experience: definitely lacking.  Though I have done a lot of formwork and pours on shorter stem wall monopours over the years.  Mostly though, I rely on experienced professionals to do the stuff they are best at – in this case it’s why we’ve hired the engineer, concrete pumper, flatwork contractor, etc.  The ICFs are new to me, so I attended a four hour workshop provided by the distributer, and I feel very confident that things will work out well.   I’m using the ICFs for two reasons.  The first is to provide an energy saving foundation for my home.  The second is, as a residential home designer, I want to promote the advantages of ICF usage, and there is nothing better than walking the talk. 

icfcontractorUser is Offline
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07/10/2008 11:51 AM  
esger,

I agree with smartwall although I will try to be a little more tactful. You really need to get an ICF professional in to at least look at your forms before you pour. This person should have good advice and suggestions for the pour you are doing. We routinely pour monos with ICF and Form a Drain, we routinely fill large gaps between the forms and the ground, but we have thousands of pours under our belts and over 50 years experiece on our jobsites.

Trust me when I say that pour day is the day that can cost your tons of time and money immediately and in the future if it does not go smoothly.

ICF Contractor
Paul StevensUser is Offline
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Posts:144




07/10/2008 6:33 PM  
Esger, I would have to agree with icfcontractor, pour day is the most important day of the build, once the concrete hardens thats it, there is no going back. Where are you located, maybe someone on this forum is close by and wouldn't mind dropping by to have a look. I have gone to different pours many a time to help out DIY'ers, for a few hundred bucks and some cold beers and at the end of the day, is just fine for me!! Pouring a conventional formed wall and an ICF wall are two completely different things, if you can get some experienced help go for it.
Good luck
Paul Stevens
Aaron McKinneyUser is Offline
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Posts:44




07/10/2008 6:52 PM  
Same here. I have done a couple mono pours. If you are nearby, (Charlotte, NC) I would be willing to help out.
miformguyUser is Offline
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Posts:25




07/10/2008 11:52 PM  
esger,

The advise to get someone experienced out there is the best money you could spend. Pour day is your money shot. What you get on the pour is what you live with. Be careful not to do too many small lifts as each pass will add to possible voids.

Virgil Schmidt
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