cmkavala
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TFreidman
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| 06/23/2008 3:41 PM |
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| does not make me warm and fuzzy about OSB hope the OSB guys will respond to this |
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sipfan
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Posts:63
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| 06/23/2008 5:27 PM |
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Please note the last sentence in the "Results and Discussion" section:
"This was expected because the OSB was not protected from the moisture in the aging method"
Properly installed Enercept OSB-skinned SIP panels would be protected from moisture via the use of seam tape and moisture barriers. Visavis, this test would not be applicable to 'real use' situations.
By the way, Enercept residential panels come with a lifetime guarantee against de-lamination and are ICC certified (ESR-1780). |
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Roberta Bartel
Marketing Manager
Enercept - The Builders Choice
1-800-658-3303
Enercept Custom SIPS - Building today for a greener tomorrow. |
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GeorgiaTom
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Posts:132
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| 06/23/2008 5:36 PM |
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Posted By sipfan on 06/23/2008 5:27 PM
Visavis, this test would not be applicable to 'real use' situations.
By the way, Enercept residential panels come with a lifetime guarantee against de-lamination and are ICC certified (ESR-1780). Sipfan;
"Real use" did you ever hear of a flood?
the delamination guarantee is of no use if the OSB disintegrates
can you post the written guarantee?
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sipfan
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| 06/23/2008 5:47 PM |
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Any home will suffer damage and need repair following a flood.
Our warranty is posted on our web site:
http://www.enercept.com/index.php/enercept_sips_technical_information/warranty |
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Roberta Bartel
Marketing Manager
Enercept - The Builders Choice
1-800-658-3303
Enercept Custom SIPS - Building today for a greener tomorrow. |
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cmkavala
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Posts:862
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| 06/23/2008 5:52 PM |
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Posted By sipfan on 06/23/2008 5:47 PM
Any home will suffer damage and need repair following a flood.
Our warranty is posted on our web site:
http://www.enercept.com/index.php/enercept_sips_technical_information/warranty
sipfan;
that is a true statement, but OSB cannot sit in water for 48hours without starting to come apart
The idea is to avoid total devestaion if the walls get wet
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Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips.com
1-877-321-SIPS |
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NWP
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Posts:53
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| 06/23/2008 10:38 PM |
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Hello Chris,
I am believer that each product has its pros and cons, a question that comes to mind in regards to steel is if it is exposed to moisture for any length of time wouldn't it begin to rust and corrode which eventually lead to off gasing and health issues also. once covered how would you detect it. I think that this should be forum of information and explaining the differences between product and educating the public so that they can make educated decisions and not be driven by fear. I believe that this a tactic the Bush administration used to drag us into Iraq. Let people make informed unbias decisions, afterall how many homes have you seen or heard about disintegrating.
Great info but how unbiased is the information?
Ralph |
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cmkavala
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| 06/24/2008 6:08 AM |
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Posted By NWP on 06/23/2008 10:38 PM
Hello Chris,
I am believer that each product has its pros and cons, a question that comes to mind in regards to steel is if it is exposed to moisture for any length of time wouldn't it begin to rust and corrode which eventually lead to off gasing and health issues also. once covered how would you detect it. I think that this should be forum of information and explaining the differences between product and educating the public so that they can make educated decisions and not be driven by fear. I believe that this a tactic the Bush administration used to drag us into Iraq. Let people make informed unbias decisions, afterall how many homes have you seen or heard about disintegrating.
Great info but how unbiased is the information?
Ralph Ralph;
I put the report out there for people to review and form their opinion and post comments, the steel used in the test was G90 galvanized, the steel we use in our panels is galvalume
(an even better alloy)
It apparently did not degrade according to the report after 15 cycles
get a chunk of OSB and a piece of G90... stick it a 5 gal bucket of water for 2 weeks and let me know the results
There is no off gassing in steel or EPS.
I assure you its not a government cospiracy
How many how many homes were left after Katrina and more importantly how many sheets of OSB do you think were still intact after the waters receded
unbiased ? ... look online and see who Ashland is they did the testing
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Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips.com
1-877-321-SIPS |
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NWP
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Posts:53
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| 06/24/2008 6:53 AM |
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Chris,
My mistake I did not read the report before hand. Of course we are all aware what happens to OSB when wet, it will swell and degrade. I would also like to speak to you sometime about the steel sips. Looking to add to my line. I would also like to understand the equipment needed to manufacuter them and the associaterd cost. Is there anything like this that would compare the cement fiber skins to steel? Sorry for the misunderstanding. Mouth tends to get in front of thought sometimes.
Ralph |
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cmkavala
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Posts:862
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| 06/24/2008 8:14 AM |
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Posted By NWP on 06/24/2008 6:53 AM
Chris,
I would also like to speak to you sometime about the steel sips.
Ralph
My dime.......... toll free 1-877-321-7477
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Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips.com
1-877-321-SIPS |
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crashkahuna
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Posts:21
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| 06/24/2008 11:12 AM |
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| If a house was completed in SIP walls and then had an 'in-house' flood due to a burst pipe or faulty valve within a SIP etc how would it be repaired?. Can a section of SIP wall be repaired or replaced? Or if there was some reason to get to the wiring in a SIP wall could it be done? Thanks from a newbie trying to go green. |
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cmkavala
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Posts:862
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| 06/24/2008 12:36 PM |
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Posted By crashkahuna on 06/24/2008 11:12 AM
If a house was completed in SIP walls and then had an 'in-house' flood due to a burst pipe or faulty valve within a SIP etc how would it be repaired?. Can a section of SIP wall be repaired or replaced? Or if there was some reason to get to the wiring in a SIP wall could it be done? Thanks from a newbie trying to go green. If it were Steel or Fibercement there would be no damage to the structural SIP
depending on extent of damage they can be repaired or replaced.
Future wiring? , it is why we like to fur the panels, so a switch or receptacle addition later on does not become a major remodel job. The air space also improve STC ratings on all SIPs
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Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips.com
1-877-321-SIPS |
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tmsu
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Posts:43
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| 06/24/2008 1:02 PM |
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I'll comment. This report is helpful in pointing out that if your house is ever in a flood and soaks in water over a period of time, your OSB SIPs are in trouble. Not sure I needed an official test to tell me that. Pretty intuitive I would think. I assume that is why when you research and purchase OSB SIPs, there is plenty of information regarding protecting them against long exposure to moisture.
Again, the report is helpful if you wanted to go with no siding or roofing and be good with the steel SIP. If you wanted to go that way.
I will note that there should be no concern regarding "failure" of the OSB SIP if the house is appropriately covered. |
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TFreidman
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Posts:20
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| 06/24/2008 1:17 PM |
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| What I gather from it is that the steel is outperforming the OSB regardless of wether its covered or not, I am a little disapponted that there was onlly one OSB mfg. to respond. But as you stated the test is pointing out the obvious and there is not much more to say |
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Louie FischerSIPs
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| 06/24/2008 3:02 PM |
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| I don't guess you will tell me the true cost difference in percentage in OSB vs. Steel SIPs. I am just curious as I have some friends that live on the coast and are looking to build. Obviously a good option for people who could experience a flood. |
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SteelSipMan
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| 06/24/2008 3:44 PM |
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Posted By Louie FischerSIPs on 06/24/2008 3:02 PM
I don't guess you will tell me the true cost difference in percentage in OSB vs. Steel SIPs. I am just curious as I have some friends that live on the coast and are looking to build. Obviously a good option for people who could experience a flood. Louie,
The prices were disclosed on another thread started by the panel guy - entitled "SIP Pricing & Other Information"
and as stated on previous posts one needs to factor in: cost of crane, soffit, house wrap and labor saved with no splines and/or spline fastening ,as these items are not needed with steel and have value in the final analysis.
In addition if they are on the coast they may be eligible for huge reduction in homeowners insurance.
Its hard to put a bottom line on a cost bare materials>>>>>>>>>> it's like comparing PT decking to trex
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ReadyToRetire
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| 06/24/2008 5:32 PM |
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Wow,
What suprised me was that the OSB SIP performed so well. 48 hours in warm water per cycle, and after 3 cycles (SIX DAYS in the water, and six 0%-to-100% transitions, and eight days at 101 degrees and 100%) the OSB SIPs still retained 50% of their initial strength.
OK, yes, if I knew that I was in an area where major floods were likely and I really had to build there, steel might be a better choice. Otherwise, it's not clear that it is -- there are choices to make.
Very respectfully,
Larry
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TFreidman
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Posts:20
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| 06/24/2008 6:07 PM |
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The OSB manufacturers state they have ICC approvals. The test data says ICC AC05 requires 80% retention after 3 cycles for panels to be considered durable.
So am I geting this right? - that the ICC does not consider OSB SIPs durable since it failed the test being 50% at 3 cycles? Or am I not interpreting correct? |
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tmsu
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Posts:43
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| 06/24/2008 7:37 PM |
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Posted By TFreidman on 06/24/2008 1:17 PM
What I gather from it is that the steel is outperforming the OSB regardless of wether its covered or not, I am a little disapponted that there was onlly one OSB mfg. to respond. But as you stated the test is pointing out the obvious and there is not much more to say
A little disclosure. I am not a manufacturer of OSB SIPs. I did build my house with them though. I know very little about the entire market or all the other options available. If I could have afforded it, I would have done ICF the whole way up. I actually built the house myself and didn't think I would be able to do concrete, so there you have it. Steel SIPs may well be "better", however, wood has some very redeeming qualities that makes it easier to work with. One thing I find interesting is, I have a section of a SIP wall that was used as a "filler" that has been sitting outside for over a year. It is still solidly intact and there is no peeling or anything else going on with it. Now I don't propose that this is evidence of a long lasting product but I can see what I can see. It tells me that a small bit of exposure to weather won't really hurt the OSB SIPs and is a non-factor in MOST situations.
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PanelCrafters
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Posts:1343
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| 06/24/2008 8:05 PM |
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Posted By cmkavala on 06/23/2008 5:52 PM
sipfan;
that is a true statement, but OSB cannot sit in water for 48hours without starting to come apart
The idea is to avoid total devestaion if the walls get wet
So, let me get this straight: Everything but the walls will be destroyed, and your water logged, smelly, scum encrusted, walls will remain. That is some kind of an advantage? How do you disinfect them and remove the smell? And, how do you dry them out(knowing that moisture can't possibly get inside them)?
OSB EPS SIPS would fare no better, but I'm not going to 'Blow Smoke..." in an effort to show some kind of imaginary advantage.
I'm sure that everyone will appreciate your Tin SIPS even more, when they have to tear them down because of a flood. |
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....jc
If you're not building with OSB SIPS(or ICF's), why are you building? |
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