MHammil
Registered Users
Posts:1
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| 07/07/2008 6:32 PM |
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I am remodeling my bathroom and would like to install some electric floor heating. What is the difference in efficiency between the 120v and 240v systems? Will I be better off using one over the other?
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Brock
Registered Users
Posts:209
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| 07/07/2008 8:44 PM |
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Depends on wattage, you can run a smaller wire (cheaper and easier to work with) running 240vac for the same wattage.
Efficiency wise they are the same, given you spec the wire to match the loading. |
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Green Bay, WI. - geothermal heated indoor pool with a small solar setup |
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warmsmeallup
Registered Users
Posts:87
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| 07/07/2008 8:55 PM |
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| Using line voltage mats, larger areas (say around 100sf of coverage or more) are better suited using 240 but you don't have to. With low voltage systems, you can use 120v up to 110sf and then it goes to 240 therafter. |
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Comfort Radiant Heating |
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HandyHammer
Registered Users
Posts:33
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| 07/08/2008 5:53 PM |
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In terms of the heating the 120vac or 240vac will be the same if you are using a product that is designed for equal output. I have used a variety of line voltage products and they range from 10/12/15 watts per square foot. I prefer the Danfoss LX mat (because it is sticky on the back and saves my back from trying to staple or glue these things down) or cable if it is a complex layout. I think they are rated for 12 watts which works great, maybe a little much for a well insulated room but usually will do the trick.
I will tell you that one efficiency is in the amps required. 240v is going to draw far fewer amps which can be considered an 'efficient' way to utilize your electrical service at the panel. |
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Jay71
Registered Users
Posts:4
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| 07/10/2008 4:31 PM |
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I've just recently started checking out radiant heating systems because I too am thinking about putting in a heated bathroom floor. I helped my brother put in a radiant system in his kitchen years ago, but I've forgotten the ins and outs (and 120v vs. 240v).
HandyHammer, where did you find the LX mats with sticky backing? (The cable is already woven into the mat, right?) How difficult is it for a "newbie" to install the cable?
Thanks.
J-Mustang |
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warmsmeallup
Registered Users
Posts:87
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| 07/10/2008 4:48 PM |
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You can find a local distributor from Danfoss.com or Heatizon.com. Keep in mind that the sticky backing (many have either peel off tape or a sticky backing of some kind) will not work on exposed concrete or backer board unless you "prime" the surface first. If you're working on a plywood sub, then it is time saver, no doubt.
We've installed Danfoss to. It is easier but I (and my customers) like the multi-functional, programmable thermostat better from Heatizon. |
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Comfort Radiant Heating |
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HandyHammer
Registered Users
Posts:33
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| 07/10/2008 6:23 PM |
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| I purchase the Danfoss LX mats or cables from warmzone.com. They are spot on for recommendations and provide useful layouts. The adhesive on the back is awesome! I have used it on every imaginable floor and sub-floor including backer board and it works great. The Danfoss mats have a nice tacky substance on the back and then are traced with a super sticky tape every foot or so. Hands down the quickest product to install. The thermostat is a bit odd but I usually buy a Sunstat from Watts Suntouch. My customers prefer them and I think they are easier to program. Warmzone will mix and match brands for me and I suppose they will for you as well. So look at the Danfoss LX product and ask for the Suntouch thermostat. --Good luck. |
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Jay71
Registered Users
Posts:4
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| 07/10/2008 6:53 PM |
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Thanks for the feedback "warmsmeallup" and "HandyHammer". I'll leave the thermostat wiring to an experienced electrician, but I did a search and found a site (suntouchmats.com) that had some pretty cool info. I'm sure you guys already know about it, bit I liked that they had some links to installation videos and stuff on YouTube. I'm still not all that confident about what I'm doing and REALLY appreciate the info you guys have given me.
If I use the LX stuff with sticky backing, I still need to "prime" backer board though - right? Thanks again!! |
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Jay71
Registered Users
Posts:4
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| 07/10/2008 7:00 PM |
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| I have one more question. I will probably be putting radiant heat in my kitchen. Since I have a basement, I can access my kitchen floor from below. How difficult is it to retrofit the floor with radiant heat? Not sure what I want to do with the floor yet. It's ineoleum, so I imagine I'd need to put in tile or hardwood - right? I'm not sure I want to take on this project!! |
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warmsmeallup
Registered Users
Posts:87
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| 07/10/2008 7:45 PM |
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Suntouch will work as well as any other however, no, you can't retro-fit line voltage mats. They MUST be installed on the subfloor floor and in a mortar or self leveling compound. No other way. Since you're planning on linoleum, if you have no plans to use a self leveling compound, change your plans! Or, you can't use line voltage mats.
The only electric radiant system that you can retro-fit is called Zmesh low voltage, but now you're in a whole other price range. Also, if you have access to the floor below, is the space below heated? If not, you will loose the heat from the floor warming system downward to the colder space below. Radiant will go to the cold below if you don't have a reflective barrier/insulator below it. |
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Comfort Radiant Heating |
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MaxPark
Registered Users
Posts:9
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| 07/11/2008 5:59 PM |
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| Jay71, I did go to the Warmzone site suggested by handy hammer and found an interesting retrofit product that may work for under your kitchen floor. I did a lot of checking around and also visted suntouch. I finally decided to try giving Warmzone a call and their staff was very helpful. I highly recommend them! They recommended a 240v Danfoss LX system. They even sent me an installation layout based on the my drawing and I am going to use some of their installers for the wiring of the thermostat. The LX mats seem fairly easy to install, especially with the layout they provided. I have not installed yet, wish me luck! |
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Jay71
Registered Users
Posts:4
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| 07/14/2008 10:28 AM |
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| Wow, good info. Looks like I really need to do my homework - and rethink how I should do the kitchen floor. Thanks guys! I appreciate the time. |
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HandyHammer
Registered Users
Posts:33
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| 07/17/2008 11:40 PM |
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Jay71: There is NO need to primer a floor or subfloor for the LX mat from Danfoss. The two types of adhesive (tacky backing & super strength tape) they use are sufficient to layout the mats and get them ready for a layer of thinset or self leveler.
warmsmeallup: Suntouch and Warmzone offer products that ARE line voltage for underfloor joist installations. I have used both and I believe their may be others out there. I like the Retroheat product from Warmzone. It is inexpensive and works great. After my first installation I had my doubts, but after insulating each joist with a high R-value bat insulation i got terrific heat that was naturally reflecting upward through the floor into a room with carpet. Worked great and I think it is one of my least expensive heating projects I have done.
There are several line voltage products hitting the market for a great value. The coolest one I have used is from Idealheat. I think they are only sold through Warmzone.com. It was 14 watts a square foot and cost my about 50% less than what I have paid for Zmesh. I suppose this is also a 'line-voltage' product that does NOT require self leveler or thinset. I installed this under an engineered floor product in half the time I would normally need. |
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HandyHammer
Registered Users
Posts:33
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| 07/18/2008 10:50 AM |
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Warm Ribbon from Warmzone
Here is a line voltage product that does NOT require embedment. You can install this under any floor covering including hardwood. Cost was about $6 square foot and that is consistent for any sized project. This Warm Ribbon product puts out 14 watts a lineal foot! This was remodel with a limited budget and needed a new primary heat source. Warmzone set me up with this a few months ago and it has worked beautifully! |
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