budden
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| 07/02/2008 9:42 PM |
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Several threads glance off the topic -- warped lumber, pressure-treated when in contact with concrete, etc. All of which triggers a question:
What's a good way to build interior (non-weight-bearing) partition walls?
The-way-we've-always-done-it answer is, of course, 2x4 studs and sheetrock. Better way?
Assumptions and secondary questions:
- concrete deck (as in the basement). Therefore the sill plate would be in direct contact w/ concrete.
- hydronic tubing in the deck (how do you avoid hitting one when fastening sill plates)?
- fastening of partition wall to ICF walls (ie. perpendicular TEE joint)
- goods/bad cost/benefit of metal vs wood framing?
- ability to remodel 10 years from now?
Thoughts? And thanks.
--
b
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TLC-ICF
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| 07/02/2008 10:43 PM |
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| We are in the middle of a three story ICF motel with all steel studs. Looks like the best way to go. |
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dmaceld
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| 07/02/2008 11:08 PM |
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Posted By budden on 07/02/2008 9:42 PM
Assumptions and secondary questions:
- fastening of partition wall to ICF walls (ie. perpendicular TEE joint)
I used three methods in my in-progress DIY ICF house, ICFVL connector plates, screws into the webs, and Red Head Multi-set drop in anchors. Of the three, the drop in anchors are by far the best as far as I'm concerned. I wish I would have known about them earlier. I wouldn't have bothered with the connector plates. The screws into the webs are prone to stripping out the plastic, and the connectors are pricey and tend to extend above the wall surface, and of course you have to know exactly where they're needed before pouring the concrete. The drop in anchors are cheap, ~$0.90 plus the bolt, available in various bolt diameters, and fairly quick to put in. You drill a hole, put in the anchor, use a punch or rod & hammer to set the tapered plug, (Red Head makes a special setting tool) and screw in the bolt! You use whatever length bolt is needed, even all thread. I used 3/8" anchors, 1/2" drill size, and drilled the 1/2" hole through the 2 x 4 stud and foam into the concrete. I used two washers , 3/8 and 5/8, to keep the bolt head from dropping into the hole in the stud.
I know this is a bit verbose but this issue was discussed a while back and no one mentioned the drop in anchors. I wish someone would have. When I saw them at Home Depot I knew they were just the ticket!
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Building house - what a way to spend retirement! |
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Farmboy
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Posts:183
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| 07/03/2008 12:47 AM |
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Mac, I'm interested in your preferred method. Have you some photos to show this, perhaps at the OB-Book website? I imagine this method could used with steel studs, right?
For all, anyone gonna post project info at the Project Album tab above? Dave |
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dmaceld
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| 07/04/2008 12:08 AM |
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Posted By Farmboy on 07/03/2008 12:47 AM
Mac, I'm interested in your preferred method. Have you some photos to show this, perhaps at the OB-Book website? I imagine this method could used with steel studs, right?
For all, anyone gonna post project info at the Project Album tab above? Dave No photos. May take some later. There really isn't anything special about the drop in anchors that a photo would clear up, I don't think. Next time you're at a HD take a look at them. They'll work for steel studs, except drilling or punching a hole in a steel stud won't be as easy or straight forward as it is with a wood stud!
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Building house - what a way to spend retirement! |
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irnivek
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Posts:274
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| 07/04/2008 9:44 AM |
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Dmaceld: why not tapcon or the caliburn (grkfastners.com)
.25/apiece (no shield needed)
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dmaceld
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| 07/10/2008 11:40 PM |
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Posted By irnivek on 07/04/2008 9:44 AM
Dmaceld: why not tapcon or the caliburn (grkfastners.com)
.25/apiece (no shield needed)
Caliburn appears to be only 5" long max, which allows only 1" embedment (2 1/2" foam + 1 1/2" stud) and are nearly $1 each. Also not available in small quantities.
Tapcon are available up to 6" long but are about $1.25 each at Fastenal. My limited experience with Tapcon indicates they are prone to stripping out or breaking. In my mind just not as reliable an anchor as the RedHead drop-ins. But they may serve sufficiently well for most users, and would be worth considering.
I just bought a box of 50 3/8" RedHead drop-ins from HD for $10.57 + tax. Not a bad price at all. Of course there is the bolt cost in addition, but you can buy whatever length bolt you need for the application.
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Building house - what a way to spend retirement! |
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budden
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Posts:18
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| 07/13/2008 9:34 PM |
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Posted By budden on 07/02/2008 9:42 PM
- concrete deck (as in the basement). Therefore the sill plate would be in direct contact w/ concrete.
- hydronic tubing in the deck (how do you avoid hitting one when fastening sill plates)?
I got the discussion about RedHeads and Tapcons ... for walls. What about these?
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Carolinwa
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| 07/15/2008 9:13 PM |
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" concrete deck (as in the basement). Therefore the sill plate would be in direct contact w/ concrete"
My husband and I used high-plastic content composite decking (Cross Timbers and Timber Tech) as a thermal break between our basement floor and the steel frame walls in our D-I-Y ICF home.
To fasten vertical studs to ICF where we forgot to place a few j-bolts, our inspector here in Washington State is letting us drill deeply into the concrete and use expoxy filler to hold a piece of 5/8" threaded rod.
Hint: If you are planning radiant heat, before pouring the concrete photograph a tape measure extended every direction and in every location that could possibly be important later for driving fasteners into the concrete. My obsessiveness with this paid off when we were trying to figure where the pex lay below the area where we wanted to fasten down the bottom of the stair stringers.
Good luck with your project!
Carol
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MDiver
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| 07/16/2008 1:15 AM |
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| Alternatively, you could glue your wall down, rather than using fastners that penetrate the slab. |
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gregj
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| 07/16/2008 5:03 PM |
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Posted By budden on 07/13/2008 9:34 PM
Posted By budden on 07/02/2008 9:42 PM
- concrete deck (as in the basement). Therefore the sill plate would be in direct contact w/ concrete.
- hydronic tubing in the deck (how do you avoid hitting one when fastening sill plates)?
[/quote]
I got the discussion about RedHeads and Tapcons ... for walls. What about these?
Use PT lumber for the bottom plate. I like Tapcons for fastening to the slab; can also use with adhesive. Use hot dipped galvanized or Stainless steel nails when nailing studs into the PT plate. Plan ahead and don't place the radiant tubing where walls will go. Measure and carefully document the locations where the tubing must pass under interior walls. If all else fails and you lose track of the tubes, crank up the heat and use an IR imager or IR temp gun to locate the tubes and mark them right on the slab. You can get an IR temp gun at an auto parts store for around $35. They usually have a little laser dot you point at the surface to be measured and it reads off the temp. You should be able to pick up the temp gradient between tubes. |
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budden
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| 07/16/2008 6:10 PM |
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Adhesive and the IR imager were the kinds of things I was looking for. The tape measure & photo trick sounds good too. Thanks.
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