Aaron McKinney
Registered Users
Posts:44
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| 07/11/2008 5:24 PM |
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Chris, was the picture on that article one of your projects?
The closest I have gotten to wet setting the forms is forming the footing with a 12" board (the same boards that I will later use for the bucks) and then screwing the block to that. In that case I can get my rebar placement exactly where it needs to be and take out some of the work that comes with getting rows one and two set up. In some cases I have floated the whole wall (the tallest being 9'), monolithically pouring the footing and wall, and slab at the same time. I don't recommend that way and would only do it in certain circumstances.
I am a little biased to wet setting the form for my own reasons, but would like to hear if you or others have had any good experiences doing it this way. Some reasons I can think of are not having to snap out your lines, and maybee a couple others, but still are not enough to persuade me.
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Paul Stevens
Registered Users
Posts:144
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| 07/11/2008 6:26 PM |
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Chris, I read the article, was that the one the guy called you about when I was there? nicely done.
The thing I don't understand is that they say it avoids a cold joint, where??, either you have a cold joint at the footing or a cold joint 6" or so up into your first block. Maybe someone can explain the benefit of a wet set. How does it better the job??
I always pour the footing one day then come in the next morning and strip the boards and take my time to make sure the entire building is square and that all sides are the right measurement. On my most recent job I was closing in the garage and came up with different measurements at either end. I took some measures and couldn't figure it out, so I sat back and thought about it for a minute, then it came to me, a few adjustments later and everything was good again. You just don't have that time if you wet set.
Please, someone explain the reason to wet set???
Paul Stevens |
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icfcontractor
Registered Users
Posts:237
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| 07/12/2008 3:50 PM |
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Aaron, Paul,
I am curious which article you are speaking of???
If we are talking about monolithically pouring your footing and stem wall, I can provide a little insight since this is a common thing we do.
Paul, I agree all you do is move the cold joint if you are pouring slightly up into the block. Here are some advantages. The method or system we us has been hybridized from other people we saw doing it years ago. If we are pouring up to a 4 foot stem wall for conventional framing or SIP home above, we will monopour. This saves us time in installation, inspections, pump truck, scheduling, ect. We will also monpour stem walls for buildings at are getting a slab on grade and are continuing with ICF above. We have been very successful with our monopours and with a trained crew we can save quite a bit of time over the standard methods.
We use conventional methods of pouring footings first and then the walls second in any type of basement situation. We like to keep the cold joint below the slab level.
ICF Contractor |
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Aaron McKinney
Registered Users
Posts:44
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| 07/12/2008 5:47 PM |
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We were referring to the wet set article in this months ICF Builder Magazine. You can read it online.
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Chris Johnson
Registered Users
Posts:341
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| 07/12/2008 5:52 PM |
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Suspending forms has advantages when building on rock. If you do it on a regular footing job the only advantage is once you pour you are ready to keep stacking immediately. Another advantage I have is quite a few jobs are trench pours, meaning the builder only cuts to the underside of the slab and digs a trench where the footings go, pretty hard to form these up and have to strip afterwards, if you do the layout and start the block suspended just slightly lower then the cut it works great as well, but it's not something most people would want to try for the first time on 700 l/f!!
Contractor, The article is in ICF Builder Magazine, online I believe it's www.ICFMAG.com
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Chris Johnson - Pro ICF
Napa, CA
Come for the wine, Stay for the ICF work |
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icfcontractor
Registered Users
Posts:237
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| 07/12/2008 6:00 PM |
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OK that is the article I read. The magazine is in my truck. In the magazine it shows different pictures than the web version. In the mag it shows a similar method to what we use.
ICF Contractor |
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Aaron McKinney
Registered Users
Posts:44
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| 07/13/2008 12:06 AM |
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| I don't have the magazine issue. How do you do it? |
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icfcontractor
Registered Users
Posts:237
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| 07/13/2008 11:28 AM |
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Aaron,
We us a combination of CertainTeed's Form a Drain, 7/8" metal hat channel used in the steel framing and drywall industry for spreader cleats, 1 1/2 inch drip edge to make a channel for the block to sit in, and wood or steel stakes depending on the soil type. Sometimes we even have to shim the edges if we are building in sand.
Two weeks ago we used this method on a 75X50 commercial structure with a 16 inch step. It has a combination of 32" and 4' stem walls. The squareness of the building was within 1/32 of an inch. I called that good. It took approximately 25 man hours to set up and pour. He is now in the process of back filling, underground work, and a slab. So in a week we will be back to start stacking the first of two floors.
These methods can be very useful but they are not the end all be all way to do footings. Usually what you spend in materials equals what you save in labor. So the big advantage is time savings, and I can't seem to find the store that can sell me more time.
ICF Contractor |
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icfcontractor
Registered Users
Posts:237
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| 07/16/2008 2:37 AM |
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Aaron,
This weekend I will set up a photo bucket site with photo of the current project. The I will post the link.
ICF Contractor |
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icfcontractor
Registered Users
Posts:237
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Aaron McKinney
Registered Users
Posts:44
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| 07/16/2008 12:56 PM |
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| Thank you, ICF Contractor. |
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Paul Stevens
Registered Users
Posts:144
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| 07/16/2008 8:08 PM |
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ICF Contractor, what slump did you pour??
Paul Stevens |
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icfcontractor
Registered Users
Posts:237
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| 07/16/2008 8:58 PM |
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Paul,
Typically we will start our pour at a 4-5 slump depending on our issues with the gaps under the forms. We pour this along the edges on both sides of the form an sting as we go. Then once we have it sealed up we may or may not go to a 6 slump for the rest of the walls. The tallest I like to pour a stem wall in this manner is 4 feet and since it pours real fast and you can see all the way in the wall typically voids are not an issue. We also will vibrate it with a 1 1/2" to 2 " vibrator.
ICF Contractor |
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Paul Stevens
Registered Users
Posts:144
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| 07/16/2008 9:38 PM |
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Looks good, also using Logix with their almost non-existing web sure helps a lot for concrete flow!
Paul Stevens |
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Farmboy
Registered Users
Posts:158
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| 07/17/2008 11:56 PM |
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Paul, you said "..also using Logix with their almost non-existing web sure helps a lot for concrete flow!"
Can you please clarify? Are you referring to the 8" spacing of the webs, how streamlined they are or how well they hold the EPS panels together? Just curious. Dave
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SoCalScott
Registered Users
Posts:40
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| 07/18/2008 12:36 PM |
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| I think he's referring to how "little" web there is inside of the wall cavity, allowing for concrete to flow more easily compared to the older generation forms. |
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Farmboy
Registered Users
Posts:158
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| 07/18/2008 4:54 PM |
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| Thx SoCal. We're planning to use Logix and just wondered if there was a web issue with the block. Seems to be a well constructed block. |
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Paul Stevens
Registered Users
Posts:144
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| 07/20/2008 7:37 PM |
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Sorry for the delay, I have been away for the weekend. SoCalScott is correct, Logix has a good solid block with a thin web so there is minimal resistance on concrete flow.
Paul Stevens |
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Farmboy
Registered Users
Posts:158
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| 07/20/2008 8:16 PM |
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| Thanks for easing my mind on this question! Dave |
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icfcontractor
Registered Users
Posts:237
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| 07/21/2008 1:31 AM |
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Farmboy,
We use the form because we have had the most success with it, with the least amount of problems. I routinely use a 2" vibrator in my walls, something I was never able to use with other products. Rest assured if you use the Logix product and complete their prepour check list, you won't have a problem.
ICF Contractor |
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