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hart2hart
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Posts:1
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| 09/30/2003 8:55 PM |
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I am a home inspector. I need to know the proper way to inspect, determine, if older radiant ceiling heat is functioning. A recent inspection of a 30 year old condo had thermostats in each room. I raised them all to 80f and held an infra red thermometer near the ceiling. In 2 rooms I received elevated temperatures in some areas. All the electrical breakers were 120v and there were 2 newer thermostats. Its not heating season yet so does it take time to reapond? HELP
jim |
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Unregistered
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| 10/03/2003 1:42 AM |
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These do go out a LOT. Also try using your amprobe on a suspect heater circuit at the breaker panel.
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Unregistered
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| 10/22/2003 8:29 AM |
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If this is electric radiant heat in the ceiling that you're discussing, don't crank the heat up!! If the temperature in the ceiling rises too quickly you can crack the hardcoat plaster. I only operate these systems in the winter during the heating season and even so, refer my clients to a qualified contractor for further evaluation. Even if they're working during the home inspection, they can break the next day and you've got a pissed client. Send them to an electrician or a heating contractor familiar with these systems that can test the resistance on the unit and determine it's longevity. These can also be replaced fairly simply with baseboard units.
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Unregistered
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| 10/31/2003 4:55 PM |
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Ah, that explains the long crack in each of our rooms ceilings. Our condo is 44 years old, but the radiant ceiling system still seems to be working--at least according to our inspection.
Our ceilings don't look to have been repainted since 1959. Can radiant ceilings be painted, and if so, what kind of paint should be used? The ceiling has a very nice, but dingy, popcorn finish with embedded sparkly bits. It's much finer than what one would find on most new ceilings.
John |
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Unregistered
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Posts:2321
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| 06/24/2004 3:04 PM |
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our house was built in the sixty's with radiant ceiling heat is there a way to install ceiling fans,lighting fixtures without damage to radiant heat?
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meterman
Registered Users
Posts:1
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| 08/27/2004 2:11 PM |
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I also have just purchased a home built in the mid 60's with radient ceiling heat. What I need to know is how to locate it in the ceiling so I can install light and fan fixtures without damaging the heating. I was told by the inspector that it was imbedded or made into the drywall. I haven't been into the attic, so I don't know what it looks like up there. It is a closed off crawl space only. Please help, I know nnothing about this type of heat. It is the first of it's kind I have seen.
Thanks |
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Unregistered
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Posts:2321
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| 12/09/2004 10:17 AM |
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There seems to be a lot of discussion on this topic and I haven't seen many complete explanations, so let me explain about this system. I'm an electric utility engineer who has worked with these systems for 14 years.
These systems were very common in the 60s and 70s, but we still have new installations in 2004 in W PA. The older systems use resistive wire imbedded on the ceiling wallboard, spaced about 2 inches apart. Then a coat of hard-coat plaster is applied over the wire. Often, the coaint was not very thick, so it cracked.
The systems are usually wired 240 Volts like a baseboard unit, with a dedicated thermal or line voltage thermostat. The newer line voltage thermostats will provide some increased comfort level, but they cost over $30 each.
You can paint over the ceiling with conventional paints. You can also re-plaster another layer of 1/4" plaster over top of the original.
These systems are very comfortable since they heat objects the heat "sees", including you. Think of the sun on a cool day. If you're in the sun, you're warm. If it gets cloudy or your in the shade, your cool. Celiing heat warms your floor, couch, bed, etc. I've had this heat for 6 years and never noticed a cooler feeling under my kitchen table. It's very comfortable and clean at a reasonable operating cost.
However, there are three drawbacks. Time delay, limited installation possibilities of celing fans, and like ANY system, some failures.
This heat takes a couple of hours to do it's job. If you leave them off while you're at work and turn them on when you come home, you'll be cold for a while. I don't recommend setting the thermostats back. I leave them set and forget them.
Extreme care must be taken with these systems so you don't cut the wire by drilling or cutting the ceiling. The wire zig-zags in close rows across the ceiling, and you don't easily know where it is after it's been plastered. There are three ways to find the wire: 1. Dampen the celing with a sponge with the heat on...the wires will dry the ceiling first...damper areas will be between the wires. 2. Use a ceiling cable tracer or signal tracer with the breaker OFF. This will emit a signal at the wire. 3. Carefully scrape the plaster away with the breaker OFF. This is risky since an errant scrape will damage the wire. If you did this carefully, you could probably move the wire to accommodate a ceiling fan. Older wire may be too brittle and may break when you move it, so you're rolling the dice. See below for repairs.
You can determine if the systems work by turning them on and seeing if the ceiling gets warm after an hour or so, or by seeing if there is current in the circuit. Most failures occur at a crack or plaster repair. The wire can become brittle after a few decades of use. My home is 1979 and has cracks, but no failures. Most failures I see here are from the 60s. If the cable fails in one place, the entire circuit/room from that thermostat will not work. Finding a failure can be tricky. We loan our customers a 1960's vintage celiing cable tracer. Maybe your electric utility would have one too. There are some newer versions I have seen, but not tried. Search for "Fox and Hound signal" to get some hits. Our tracer connects in place of the thermostat and provides a signal that changes at the break. Multiple breaks are less common, but more difficult to find.
When the break is found, you can either repair from the plaster side, or from the attic side. Either way, you turn the breaker OFF and scrape the wire clear. Then you can clear a few inches each side of the break. If you are working from the attic, you might be able to do this without any plaster damage below. You should use a qualified electrician for this work. With the breaker still OFF, strip the insulation away around the break about 1/2". Place heat shrink insulation around the wire. Then use a crimp connector or solder the two ends together. Next slide the heat shrink back over the connection and wrap with electrical tape. Now you can test the circuit. If all is fine, turn the system back off and patch the repair spot. Wait until the patch is totally dry before turning the system back on.
New alternatives are available such as resistive wire in rolled sheets that you drywall over, or even separate heating panels like a drop ceiling. If your system is beyond repair for some unknown reason, you could get some new wire and re-plaster it in over the existing plaster. Of course, baseboard could also be used, but it's not as desirable.
Hopefully these tips will help you enjoy your ceiling heat for years to come. These are nice systems that require little or no maintenance for many many years.
Enjoy!
Ed B.
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dallen
Registered Users
Posts:2
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| 03/11/2005 11:00 PM |
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We purchased a Boise Cascade modular home in 1983. Our ceilings are cracking perpendicular to the trusses pretty much end to end in all the rooms which have the radiant heat. This has become more prevalent in the past 3 months. Our construction is regular drywall attached to the trusses with 8'- 10' by 22" x 1/2" radiant drywall panels placed between the trusses, with wires to the thermostats to each room, then 6 to 8 inches of rockwool loose insulation on top of that. The ceiling seems to be sagging away from the trusses and the nails which are spaced 12 inches apart. The actual heat is working fine and we haven't had any problems with any of the thermostats. In checking the attic, we had a concentration of black mold on all the surrounding wood surfaces 12 x 14ft near the bathrooms where the venting exits the roof. We added on to the original home in 1992, and put on a new asphalt shingle roof then added two additional gable vents on each end of the house to improve ventilation. Our problem seems to be structural and weight bearing on the drywall.
We need to find out if this is a common problem, what the manufacturer's recommended repair requires, and who to contact to resolve this. |
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