mi_home
Registered Users
Posts:2
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| 02/20/2006 4:16 PM |
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I am trying to determine the best installation method and seem to get a different opinion from every manufacturer I talk with.
I am re-modeling and have the room/access to do staple-up or install on top of the subfloor. Can someone give me some help of selecting the best method from a heating efficiency standpoint. Also, are heat transfer plates preferable with either or both methods? |
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NRT.Rob
Registered Users
Posts:386
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| 02/21/2006 10:05 AM |
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Sandwich with light plates meets or beats just about every other method except Warmboard, Raupanel, or thin 'crete pours.
With heavy plates, you're with the thin 'crete pours and still a bit short of Warmboard or Raupanel.
If you go with the joist, you'd have to use extruded plates (heavy plates) to get in the ballpark of sandwich, light plates would be weaker and would require addressing expansion issues. either with PEX-AL-PEX pipe (harder to work with in joists) or by using an appropriate dynamic mixing strategy in the controls (variable speed injection or a motorized mixing valve with outdoor reset).
Occasionally I come across a home with loads low enough to make plateless joist installs attractive. Around 10 BTUs/sq foot is that level and I typically only see it in well built homes in mild climates. If your MI_Home means "michigan", it's probably not for you. It can often heat, but not well. Also, if loads are very low, your floors will rarely be noticeably warm and the whole idea of using radiant floor becomes less attractive... in those cases radiant ceiling can be cheaper and more effective, except in cathedral or slope ceiling situations. In fact ceiling is often a very good method as it has incredible output capabilities at very low water temperatures, you never have to worry about throw rugs, etc. And it's an easy install.
I would never install a sandwich without plates. Way too easy to get heat striping that way. Generally the question is between light or heavy plates. Light plates are usually quite adequate, but sometimes with higher loads or thicker floor finishes heavy plates are needed.
-=Northeast Radiant Technology, LLC=-
www.NRTradiant.com |
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-=Northeast Radiant Technology=-
NRTradiant.com |
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Unregistered
Registered Users
Posts:2321
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| 03/02/2006 12:32 PM |
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Has there been any scientific study of the benefits of the sandwich installation over the staple up method. I realize there are countless opinions out there but I would like to see empiricle evidence. Then it would nice to compare that to the costs, installation and utility costs going forward. Then I could make a good decision. To be honest a homeowner has to have quite a bit of money to be able to afford warmboard. For gosh sakes that stuff goes for about $200/sheet. Thats outrageous. I know the rep will come back and give his speel but howmany decades would it take to get a payback from that installation even if it is used as the subfloor.[:)][:)][:)]
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NRT.Rob
Registered Users
Posts:386
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| 03/02/2006 2:58 PM |
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vs a high temp staple up? if you are using a mod/con boiler, with other job savings, there *could* be a payback with reduced water temperatures. But typically Warmboard is not sold for payback purposes. It's sold for output and comfort and ease of installation (where if you are paying for labor, the payback could be pretty fast). there are other benefits as well (say if you want to leave the door open for solar hot water usage later).
There is no scientific study of the benefits of a sandwich over staple up, however the operating water temperatures of the two types of systems in the field provides enough of an answer to anyone lacking the common sense to see that fighting less wood is good.
You can often get to a similar water temperature/output characteristics in a well insulated joist.. using extruded plates.. which costs more than a lightweight sandwich overall.
Increasing your parasitic losses through joist cavities alone with a 40+ increase in delta T is quite significant.
-=Northeast Radiant Technology, LLC=-
www.NRTradiant.com |
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-=Northeast Radiant Technology=-
NRTradiant.com |
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Unregistered
Registered Users
Posts:2321
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| 03/06/2006 5:33 PM |
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I just love it when so called experts always have to put some condesending remark in any answer they post, like NRT.rob. I guess it makes them feel good and makes up the other deficiencies in their life , or example they have the Naploeon complex and the guy stands 5'1 with inserts in his shoes.
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NRT.Rob
Registered Users
Posts:386
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| 03/06/2006 7:02 PM |
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Yeah, I've got one of those in every post. Finally my dark secret lies exposed for all the world to see.
I didn't word that post carefully though, it's true. I apologize. Must have been a bad day.
-=Northeast Radiant Technology, LLC=-
www.NRTradiant.com |
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-=Northeast Radiant Technology=-
NRTradiant.com |
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Brian
Registered Users
Posts:1
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| 03/08/2006 11:38 PM |
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jmbeam,
Think your post is a little off base. Have to disagree with your perception of NRT.Rob. If you read this board and the other radiant board that NRT.Rob posts on I think you would see that your comments could not be further from the truth. Read a bit more before you flame.
Never met Rob or talked to him yet, but he offers quite a bit of information and good information, all for free.
I plan on using NRT Radiant to help design my project as soon as my home plans are done.
Brian |
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