Pat M
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Posts:4
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| 05/22/2006 5:27 PM |
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O.k. so I have been reading some of the older posts on this forum and have gotten some great info. The one thing that I do want to clarify is the insulation that is being used for under slab radiant. The project is a 960 sf garage slab on grade with an 11' ceiling and the log house is a 28'x44' foundation with a full walkout basement that will consist of 2 frenchwood doors. I know that I should use 2" Owens Corning Pink Foamular rigid foam insulation [url]http://www.owenscorning.com/around/insulation/products/foamular.asp[/url]but what should I use for a vapor barrier below that or can it be placed directly to the ground surface? Would something like The Barrier Insulation [url]http://www.thebarrierinsulation.com/26201.html[/url] work or is it just a waste of money?
For the first floor and loft I will be using Warmboard so I have no worries about that just the in slab part is what has me nervous. I will be running 7/8" tubing 16" apart but want to make sure that it is done right the first time and not paying for it later on down the road.
Any help or thoughts would greatly help out.
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NRT.Rob
Registered Users
Posts:386
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| 05/22/2006 6:54 PM |
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Anything other than rigid foam is, in the vast majority of circumstances, a complete waste of money. Nothing comes close. Not-one-thing. They claim they do, they use all kinds of justifications, but when the money is on the table, they just plain DO NOT measure up. Use rigid foam with a poly vapor barrier.
16" o.c. is too wide, by the way, for a residential slab. Garage, ok, but if the basement will be finished, ever, you want a 12" o.c. install to prevent heat striping. Also, there is no reason whatsoever to use large diameter pipe unless you have a very, very long building that requires longer loop lengths. You can heat either your garage or basement with 3/8" or 1/2" tubing easily. 1/2" is more standard. All large diameter pipe does for you is cost more.
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Pat M
Registered Users
Posts:4
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| 05/22/2006 10:57 PM |
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Thanks Rob for the info. My bad. The garage is 7/8" with 16" spacing where the basement split into 2 seperate zones is using 1/2" with 12" on center. As for the poly vapor barrier anything in particular I should use or basically just any poly sheathing?
Pat M |
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Pat M
Registered Users
Posts:4
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| 05/22/2006 11:00 PM |
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Also another question Rob. How far do you guys travel? Might definitely be interested in paying for your services or at least consultation on the radiant system for field support. We are building in Clarksville, NH second to last town before you hit Canada.
Pat M |
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NRT.Rob
Registered Users
Posts:386
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| 05/22/2006 11:45 PM |
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Hi Pat,
http://www.buildingscience.com/resources/foundations/sand_layer_under_slab.htm
that has some good discuss of vapor barriers in there. the site in general is truly excellent and packed with tons of info for you. Basically it's a polyethylene vapor barrier.
-=Northeast Radiant Technology, LLC=-
www.NRTradiant.com |
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-=Northeast Radiant Technology=-
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Carlos60
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Posts:3
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| 05/23/2006 3:14 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Pat M
I will be running 7/8" tubing 16" apart but want to make sure that it is done right the first time and not paying for it later on down the road.
What exactly do you mean when you say "first"?
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Pat M
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Posts:4
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| 05/24/2006 8:18 AM |
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Hi Carlos60. What I meant by doing it right the first time is in a few years I don't want to have to jackhammer the garage and finished basement floor because something went wrong and have to do it all over again. That is what I meant by the first comment.
Pat M |
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NRT.Rob
Registered Users
Posts:386
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| 05/24/2006 11:57 AM |
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Carlos is a spam-bot, a program to generate posts with links to up some site's traffic or standing with google. This one is more realistic than most though!
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Unregistered
Registered Users
Posts:2321
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| 05/25/2006 3:29 PM |
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NRT.Rob
You talk about heat stripping with spacing larger than 12".
If the spacing exceeds 12, does the heat stripping equal out over time or is this something you live with?
Thanks LG
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NRT.Rob
Registered Users
Posts:386
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| 05/25/2006 4:09 PM |
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You can minimize heat striping by running the system as consistently as possible at as low a temperature as possible. This will minimize the pipe temperatures, and give the slab the maximum amount of time to conduct heat laterally between pipes as well during heating cycles.
Under a normal system operation, you should see striping lessen under heavy heat loads (it's on more) and worsen under lesser loads.
So if the tubing is already in concrete, PWM thermostats or outdoor reset mixing controls can help. turning down your water temperature might help too, iif possible, but that may mean comitting to playing an ongoing game of adjusting water temperatures throughout the season if it's done "right" (ie you get to the right water temperature for your current condition) so reset controls are good to automate that action.
But nothing can guarantee you won't have striping with wide on centers, at least part of the time. That said, some people don't mind the striping. But I tend to think if you are putting the money into radiant, it's worth putting in the bit extra it takes to do it right the first time. More tubing will lower water temperatures and reduce response times as well, which can be nice benefits in some cases.
-=Northeast Radiant Technology, LLC=-
www.NRTradiant.com |
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-=Northeast Radiant Technology=-
NRTradiant.com |
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