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jbrown84
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Posts:25
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| 04/15/2007 10:12 AM |
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Since pressurizing the lines occurs early on, is there a best way to do this; how; and who can do it?
Thanks.
Jeff |
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NRT.Rob
Registered Users
Posts:384
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| 04/19/2007 7:47 PM |
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Posted By jbrown84 on 04/15/2007 10:12 AM
Since pressurizing the lines occurs early on, is there a best way to do this; how; and who can do it?
Thanks.
Jeff
With Air, immediately after the tubing is installed. This is like pumping up a tire, not complicated. A spray bottle of soapy water, a wrench, and pump it up to 60-80 psi. |
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-=Northeast Radiant Technology=-
NRTradiant.com |
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NRT.Rob
Registered Users
Posts:384
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| 04/19/2007 7:52 PM |
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Posted By lkazanov2 on 04/12/2007 4:56 PM
Thanks JC,
Indeed using the Gypcrete may be the best alternative. It has the thermal mass that Warmboard cannot match. In addition, the potential PEX squeek issue that occasionally comes up on this forum will be a non issue. (Plus you can use any PEX brand you like - I personally Reahau (those everloc fittings are slick)).
Leonard
Man, I just can't get away from this mass myth.
Gypcrete is a fine product, first of all. No problem. Like it just fine.
But MASS is not why it is good. Mass has nothing to do with how good of a radiant system you have. Mass is a storage mechanism, and unless you need to STORE heat.. which is best accomplished in a tank of water you can draw from as needed, not with the mass of your floor... it's not much of a benefit.
Conductivity is what determines radiant floor performance. Aluminum is more conductive than concrete. Concrete is decently conductive, so it does a good job, but aluminum is actually superior except in one case... slab floor, polish slab, no finish floor. the total lack of additional resistance cannot be beat.
Again, gypcrete is not bad. But Mass is not useful in a radiant system, unless you have a poorly designed system and you're relying on the buffer capacity of your floor to bail out poor water temperature control. And it can bite you too... |
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-=Northeast Radiant Technology=-
NRTradiant.com |
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Mo_S
Registered Users
Posts:4
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| 06/04/2007 5:08 PM |
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Two quick questions -
First: We'll be building our house in two stages and putting warmboard on all levels. The main floor will be connected right away, but the second floor will be 6 or more months later. The system will have been designed for the entire house, although 3 of the 6 "circuits" won't be connected. Any advice on how to plan for expansion and what to avoid? On the unfinished second floor, we'll be putting in the warmboard flooring but not running the PEX until we finish the floor, although the circuits for the upstairs floor will be in the walls/floors.
Second: in PAP (aluminzed PEX) the current recommendation?
Third (ooops, I have more than 2 questions): I'd like to put a cork tile floor in the kitchen, but I've read some advice counter (that it's too good of an insulating material). Anyone with experience putting cork tiles or cork planing over warmboard?
Thanks!
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NRT.Rob
Registered Users
Posts:384
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| 06/05/2007 10:30 AM |
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| Not sure about #1, but PAP is definitely recommended, and cork is a fine flooring material. I tend to think of it as an insulator myself, but the flooring tiles made from it are no worse than any other wood really. I have many clients with cork floors over a variety of radiant methods that are very happy. |
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-=Northeast Radiant Technology=-
NRTradiant.com |
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Mo_S
Registered Users
Posts:4
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| 09/24/2007 2:47 PM |
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Hey, ever-helpful Rob (from whom I've gotten more good info than I have from Warmboard direct) -
We're about to put in the final floors, and we've hit a snag on the recomendations for the best install method for tile. One sub says "DITRA all the way", another sub says "DITRA for small spaces only," and a third says "tile over Hardi over warmboard only." None of the subs have what I'd call a lot of experience with Warmboard, and, looking back over discussions on other boards, Warmboard's recommendations have changed over the years as the product has changed and standards have changed.
I'm leaning toward a thinned mortar under DITRA (then regular mortar and tile above) myself because:
a) we've already had the plumber and the framers put holes in the PEX and they can physically SEE the stuff as they put holes in it.
b) Some day I might need to repair cracked tiles and/or get tired of this tile and want to put something else down and I'd like to be able to remove the tile without destroying the warmboard
c) DITRA seems like a good answer to keeping the floor solid but also of giving it a bit of shear movement. I know tile floors WILL crack, but this is earthquake country.
What, in your experience, is the best way to put in a larger expanse (25x25, approx) tile floor?
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NRT.Rob
Registered Users
Posts:384
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| 09/24/2007 2:55 PM |
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| I'm not sure, honestly. Tile technology does seem to be all over the map. However, if you want to talk tile, here is a good forum for it: http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?forumid=1 |
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-=Northeast Radiant Technology=-
NRTradiant.com |
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Mo_S
Registered Users
Posts:4
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| 09/24/2007 3:05 PM |
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I saw that forum, and my concern there is that they know a lot about tile and not much about radiant floors and specifically not Warmboard. One installer was saying that he put down full mortar, 1/2" Hardi board, more mortar and then tile - seemed to me that he just cut down the efficiency of the floor by adding all that thermal load. It's the whole package that needs to be considered - the best tile installation given the radiant floor materials.
Thanks for the ref, though.
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NRT.Rob
Registered Users
Posts:384
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| 09/24/2007 3:07 PM |
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| thermodynamically speaking, you can't really get into trouble with any tile install. None of the materials used pose much resistance to heat transfer. |
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-=Northeast Radiant Technology=-
NRTradiant.com |
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FRE
Registered Users
Posts:7
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| 03/14/2008 1:50 AM |
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I am planning to build a 1800 - 2000 square foot house in urban Albuquerque. For energy efficiency and comfort, I would like to use radiant floor heating. The alternative would be forced air heat or baseboard heat.
At about $190 / 4 x 8 sheet, the cost of Warmboard would be about $160 per sheet greater than regular plywood subflooring. If 62 sheets are required, the additional cost of Warmboard would be about $10,000, and that excludes the cost of the tubing, etc!!! Ducts are required anyway for cooling. Assuming that a forced air furnace costs about the same as a hot water boiler, then using Warmboard radiant floor heating would at about $10,000 to the cost of the house!!! Although the radiant floor heating would be more comfortable and efficient, there is no way that that could justify the additional cost of $10,000. The interest on the additional investment of $10,000 would greatly exceed any possible savings, even if the price of gas greatly increased.
In short, unless it can be shown that the Warmboard is considerably less than appears to be the case, I will not even consider it. It is unlikely to be much more efficient than heated baseboard, which is another possibility.
It is unclear why Warmboard is that expensive.
Demand is price elastic and unless the Warmboard manufacturer is unable to keep up with the existing quantity demaded at the current high price, one would expect that they could increase their profits by reducing the price and selling more Warmboard.
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lambabbey
Registered Users
Posts:71
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| 03/17/2008 6:07 AM |
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Hey folks,
It's great to see so many positive postings about Warmboard. When I first heard of the stuff a couple months ago, it was always in the same breath with how expenive it was. It's not cheap on the front end, but for the long-haul may be a very smart (and Green) investment. I'm going to be using it for three floors of a new home construction here in Maine. The house will be relatively small (1,700 sq ft), simple in design (a large rectangular box with an attached shed extension), and very well insulated, so my hopes are that the Warmborad will be more than sufficient to keep the house nice and cozy in the dead of winter while burning a minimal amount of propane. I'll also be installing a 60-tube Apricus solar thermal system on the roof which should even further minimize the need for the boiler to kick in. My goal is to have the house air-tight, well-insulated, predominantly fueled by the sun (solar PV, solar thermal and passive solar) and augmented by propane only on an as-needed basis. I think the Warmboard, being as efficient as it is, may be the ideal source of heat for this particular house.
I do have one concern about Warmboard though. I've heard a few people online mention that they've had problems with their hardwood floors looking 'streaked' directly above a few areas where the PEX tubing in the Warmboard touches their flooring from below. I'm curious who on here has had that same problem and how they resolved it. Do you believe it was a fault of the Warmboard, the flooring above it, water temps being too high, or something else altogether? I'll be putting down hardwood floors through 95% of the house and want to make sure I understand the cause behind the streaking so I don't recreate it myself.
Cheers,
John
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John A Gasbarre
Lamb Abbey Orchards
PO Box 623
Union, ME 04863
E-mail: orchard@lambabbey.com |
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NRT.Rob
Registered Users
Posts:384
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| 03/17/2008 10:07 AM |
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Hi John,
the only streaking I have heard of was recently relayed to me in the case of a client who stained his wood floor while the heat was running. Then, the area over the pipe dried faster and differently than the rest.
Perhaps there are other times this comes up, but it's the only one I've heard of. Hope it helps! |
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-=Northeast Radiant Technology=-
NRTradiant.com |
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chakr
Registered Users
Posts:7
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| 09/14/2008 4:12 PM |
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| Has anyone looked into using Radaint Shield like Tech Shield and routing it instead of using Warmboard? Any thoughts? |
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