I had the two contractor back to review their proposals. One was using Climate Master (CM) and the other was using Water Furnace (WF). Both are planning on using a 4 ton unit. That's where the similarities end.

-WF says his unit is more efficient than CM but that doesn't appear to be accurate (CM 28.7 EER, 5.1 COP) (WF 25.1 EER, 4.6 COP) for closed loop 4 ton unit

- However, CM estimated annual cost for heat, cooling and hot water @ $1,085.00 while WF estimated annual cost for heat, cooling and hot water @ $913.00

- CM heat load= 39,542 BTU         CM cooling load= 42,185 BTU      Winter 72°   Summer 73°

- WF heat load= 46,000 BTU         WF cooling load= 26,000 BTU     Winter 70°   Summer 72°

-CM is using 600' of well. WF is using 545' of well.

-CM says I need to use a steam humidifier because the furnaces don't generate enough heat to evaporate the water.

-WF says I can use any type of humidifier.

-WF says steam humidifiers use a lot of electricity.

-I have fiberglass duct. WF says that excess steam will collect in the duct and grow mold.


I'm adding a separate zone for my basement (which requires some additional duct work) and WF was $1,000 higher for that but the two quotes for the furnace, drilling, excavating, electric and installation are within $500 of each other so price really isn't a consideration.

I need to sort through the information they're giving me which will hopefully lead me to the right company. I checked three CM references and they all claimed the company was great to deal with and are very happy with the new system.

One other small item. WF wants a 50% deposit and 50% on completion. CM gets paid when the job is done.


Can anyone help me sort through all this?

Thanks,

Kip

Kip,

In my opinion your WF guy seems to have it together compared to CM. You don't need a steam humidifier. Chances are you won't need a humidifier at all.  Air changes with dry outside winter air are much less then with gas fired heating systems. I would suggest holding off on the humidifier and give the system some use first. You may find it's not needed at all.

Your WF guy's heat and cooling loss numbers look closer to what I would expect. I'm not sure what to make of the CM's number with the cooling being higher then the heating.

Please keep us posted. I'm glad to see the size is down to something more realistic.

Regards,

From everything I read, I thought the Cooling load was 2/3 the heating load. So I would expect to see around 30k BTU's for your system for cooling. I have yet to use my open loop geothermal system in the summer heat yet, so I dont know how it will perform and what the operating costs will be as of yet.

What's all this about Steam? Where's this steam coming from?

Thanks for the responses so far.

I'm located in south central PA and both companies used Harrisburg as the reference location for their calculations.

I'm going to call CM about their cooling loads to see what's up with that.

What about well depth. I thought 150' ton was the general rule. I don't want to save a couple of hundred dollars and sacrifice overall performance.

We live in a log home and the original furnace didn't have a humidifier on it and it was like the desert in the house. I realize we were using fossil fuel for heat but we were running mid teens for the RH before adding the humidifier.

Is mold really a concern with a steam humidifier and fiberglass duct? I'm in the commercial roofing business and mold has replaced asbestos as the dirty word in our business. One roof leak and everyone freaks out about mold.

I've seen both CM and WF names all over these boards. Is it safe to assume that they are both reputable products?

Is the difference in efficiency between these units anything to worry about? The numbers are close but in the HVAC world that could still mean a lot of money in the end. It's still a no brainier to make the switch. Heating and cooling for $1,000 versus $3,600 for propane.

Thanks,

Kip