New system concerns
Last Post 24 Nov 2008 06:42 PM by engineer. 4 Replies.
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OnaUser is Offline
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24 Nov 2008 12:54 PM
Hello All ~

I am a little concerned about my new system.  We had our first fairly cold weekend here in the Albany, NY area.  Our system barely maintained 61 degrees.  We noticed on Saturday morning that our tstat showed both stages and backup operational but our ambient temp at 61, even though the setting was 63.  I was very concerned when 5 hours later it was showing the exact same scenario.  I stressed about the amount of electricity we were using so I was thankful I paid to have submeters installed.  I checked our submeters and we barely used any more electricity (maybe 2 KWH more) on the blower/backup heat meter than normal.  Since I understood that the backup heat really sucks up power, I can't imagine that it was running all those hours continuously, right?  I came to the conclusion that the backup heat is not working and that the extra kwhrs is from the blower blowing continuously.  Does this make sense?  I did check the filter and it was clean.  So, under the assumption that the backup is not working, I am still a little concerned that the geo system alone can only heat the house to 60 with outdoor temperatures of:

Friday: high 31  low 18
Saturday: high 26  low 17
Sunday: high 31  low 16

Maybe this is OK?  My home is ~ 1950 sqft, 70 years old cape style.  We have 2 zones, 1 upstairs (which almost never turns on) and 1 downstairs.  We have a 3 ton WaterFurnace Envision.  The system was designed for the backup to turn on ~15% of the time, and my contractor made me well aware of that.  So, my question is, does this system seem properly sized?  My contractor is sending someone out this afternoon to take a look at the system and find out what's wrong.

Thanks for any input you can provide.
engineerUser is Offline
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24 Nov 2008 05:19 PM
Given that data, I'm as certain as a remote internet consultant can be that your Aux heat, which I assume is at least 5 KW and possibly more of electric resistance strip heaters, is not operating.

Every hour a 5 kW strip runs should clock 5 kWh on the submeter. You may well have 8 or 10 KW strips, which will really turn a meter.

A few possibilities:

1) Thermostat W connection not or incorrectly made - stat would call for but not get aux heat. Could also be an issue within the aux heater itself - bum sequencer, contactor or limit switch.

2) Circuit breakers for Aux heat not closed. These should be a separate pair, at least 30 Amps each

3) Worst case - Aux heat running but not included in submeter circuits, and something else is wrong. Could be that aux heat is running in "emergency mode", that is, all by itself without compressor. I doubt this given thermostat indications. Did your unit exhibit normal compressor hum while thermostat indicated Aux?

I suggest you learn to read main house meter and note it daily as you learn more about your system. You'll probably observe that your rest-of-house consumption is fairly steady, but that certain things spike it (such as a load or two of laundry run through an electric clothes dryer)

Design temp for Albany is likely a bit below 16, so you need to get this sorted out before real winter weather arrives.

If blower shares aux heat circuit and submeter then that circuit is energized (else no blower), so we are back to incorrect thermostat wiring or something else wrong with Aux heat box.

Don't panic at this point - this should be easy to resolve.

I grew up in a house kept at 62 near Boston, but my blood has long since thinned, and I married a southern girl who believes that anything below 72 is a harbinger of the next ice age.
Curt Kinder <br><br>

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is - Winston Churchill <br><br><a href="http://www.greenersolutionsair.com">www.greenersolutionsair.com</a>
OnaUser is Offline
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24 Nov 2008 05:54 PM

Here's the update:

Two of the "dip" switches were in the incorrect position.  The result was that the system was never operating in Stage 2 or Aux.  This means that the only thing running since startup 6 weeks ago has been stage 1.  This was not an issue until this last weekend when it stayed cold for several days.  After finding the reason, I'm actually impressed that the system could maintain 60 with only stage 1.  I took a photo of the dip switches after the technician fixed it so we had the correct pattern. 

By the way, when I lived in Arizona and California the house was heated to 72 in the winter.  Then I married a man from New York.  When we decided to settle down in NY he told me "everyone" kept their tstats at 60!  I believed him for several years... we are now up to 63 and as we keep track of our energy use we may even kick it up higher!  I feel so spoiled!

heatoftheearthUser is Offline
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24 Nov 2008 06:26 PM
wonderful
go joe
engineerUser is Offline
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24 Nov 2008 06:42 PM
Good - that was easier than I thought it would be.

Nothing substitutes for 'boots on the ground'

2nd stage ought to be good down to approximately 5 degrees, so the estimate of aux operation 15% of the time may be high - a good thing for your power bill
Curt Kinder <br><br>

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is - Winston Churchill <br><br><a href="http://www.greenersolutionsair.com">www.greenersolutionsair.com</a>
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