I would like to correspond with or speak directly to homeowners or installing contractors who are having issues with Hydro Delta equipment.
After having seven out of seven fail in some manner(three completely loose refrigerant ), I am starting  to see a pattern develop here.
I am wondering if anyone else is having these issues??

Hi Joe,

Hydro Delta has been discussed a few times on these forums. A search will bring up the info you are looking for. Good Luck

Thanks- I see I'm not the only one

Update, 8 out of 8 failed.
HD gave us some money back on 4 but will not do anything on the rest.
They claim there is nothing wrong with the equipment we sent back except for one unit.
I have 4 in my shop that either have no refrigertant or the ones that still have it are full of green slime, with 410a that means the moisture went in at the factory. I was lucky enough to become a WaterFurnace dealer and I've installed more than 30 in the past 10 months. One minor issue out of 30+ units; WF sent the part and paid me to install it; true customer service.
All said and done it has cost me about 50 THOUSAND in equipment and well over 340 hours of warranty service to try to keep the pieces of junk running and keep my reputation intact. But at least I can sleep at night, I don't know how Eric King National Sales Mgr. @ HD can!
Not slander just the facts boys and girls, I'll be more than happy to show anyone the units so you can see for yourself.

Do I understand that all of the HD units you installed were purchased prior to Research Products buying the brand? Were the 4 refunds before or after the first of the year?
I am interested in your experiences, keep us posted.
Joe

They were all purchased between 6-08/12-08
I recieved refunds spring of this year. They took the units back as long as I paid shipping ($800.00).
They reprted back to me that three of the units functioned fine and there was a problem with one (lie). The one that they claim had the problem was the one where the discharge line blew off the compressor (can't hide that), the others all had leaks, malfuntioning reversing valves and bypass valves (see when a client of mine needs to bang on the reversing valve to get heat it's a pretty clear indication it's sticking). They also claimed we damaged the units when we removed them and they would no longer warranty any units sold to my company........no need to worry about that! It's all documented with customer testimonials, data recordings, video, and photos. They have not replied to my last registered letter and Lennox (yes that Lennox; they are the distributor in my area) has washed thier hands and told me they won't help because it's a vendors product....any guess where we go next?

So again Research Products never recieved a dime for the equipment you purchased but gave you a refund on 4 units. On the surface that doesn't sound horrible (though it doesnt help that your still on the hook for 5 more). I don't know what responsibility RP signed on for when they bought the label. I don't know how they can continue to isssue refunds when they weren't paid for the equipment.
Your frustration is evident Joe. One of the things we tell our vendors is that support is more important than price. Your supply house absolutely profitted in this and should accept some of the responsibility. An outfit that failed to do so would see a dramatic decrease in sales to my company (one such supplier I had trouble with has seen my business plunge by 100K this year).
The Research Products folks have told me that installation is a problem in many of these situations. I'm not suggesting anything about your work as I don't know you but I hope that all your photo docs show properly installed equipment.
J

It does not matter to me who got the money the brand is the brand. If I bought out a competitor I would have to take the good with the bad and not tell his customers oh sorry I'm a new owner I can't warranty his work. I know it may not sound horrible to you but the equipment costs and labor costs(340 hrs.) did not come out of your pocket.
I am sure that RP will claim that installation was a problem, if they had bothered to come out and check my installations like I asked (more like begged) them to do they would have seen they were installed correctly. Belive me we asked for help many many times, I've got the cell phone records to prove it. I am not above asking for help I am not perfect nor are any of my techs. When you beg for help from the manufacturer of the product and they give you none, AND the systems are not functioning how do you keep a client satisfied? I see you are playing devils advocate, are you a mechanical contractor?
If my installations were so bad why do the WaterFurnace units function perfectly on the same loop fields and ductwork and why have I had no problems stemming from installations on any of my other(30+) jobs, AND HOW CAN THEY CLAIM LEAKING REFRIGERANT LINES ARE FROM A POOR INSTALLATION, WE ARE TALKING ONE THAT LOST CHARGE IN 6 WEEKS!? The answer to the first leaker was and I quote" take the unit out and ship it back to the factory, CMS to pay shipping costs, then we will sent it back for you to reinstall" Yea great customer service, how do I explain that to my client?

Yes I'm a geo contractor and I'm not at all blaming you. I'm greatful it didn't happen to me.
I'm hopeful that you can mitigate more of your losses but I can tell you that I bought a company without warranty liability. As a matter of good business I covered many simple things but not everything. I only bring it up as you might want to research the question before too much is spent on legal action. I also continue to maintain that the supply house should help a little. J

I agree that the supply house has skin in the game - they agreed to rep the equipment and marked it up.

Sorry for yelling but my blood pressure rises everytime I think about this situation. The supply houses answer to the situation......"the only way we can help you is to buy more from us so we can give you more discounts" Yea I'll take the special on the 12 Aprilair humidifiers please!
I guess I'm done venting, I wanted to put this info out there so others who are having problems with this equipment can see it's not just them, and I would still love to hear from you wherever you are.
The bottom line is this, I eat, sleep, and breath Geothermal, I have an A+ rating with the BBB, 0 complaints with the Department of Consumer Protection (thru 18 years in business) and I have maintained it through all this mess by stepping up and doing what is right for my clients, AND the Geo industry. Lets face it guys we may be doing well right now but we are still only about 1% of the HVAC market. If we are to get to 50% then we can't have manufacturers give the industry a black eye when it's still in it's infancy. To quote Forrest "and thats all I have to say about that"

I always wondered why we have pages of WF complaints and just a couple HD. Its gotta be about market share.

My guess would be market share, since there are more WF units going in the law of averages comes into play. I do not know what is going on in the rest of the country with WF dealers, but I can say in my area we have some great well trained WF contractors and techs; there are 3 of us who are geo pro contractors in CT. To attain that designation you must attend training. WF has great trainers and training materials. I have personally attended training classes in CT, WI and TX I've met some very intelligent contractors and techs.
I have only seen one minor issue with one system we have installed, WF sent me the part and paid me to install it, no questions asked.
There is no question the majority of ground source complaints come from improper installation. Do you feel the manufacturer should be responsible for equipment that is installed incorrectly? IMO it's the installing contractor who is responsible to install and verify system performace (which we do otherwise the utility kicks back the rebate forms) before he leaves the site, it is the manufacturers responsability to repair defective equipment. I don't believe you should dabble in Geo either live it or don't do it.

There's a WaterFurnace Geo Pro contractor in Dallas with similar excellent reputation.  He reports virtually no problems with all Envision models he has ever installed.

Best regards,

Bill

I authored a thread recently on manufacturer responsibility and wholeheartedly agree. With few provisos.
One of which is where a manufacturer claims superior and selected dealer training (like geo pro) they are then in the business of installer endorsement.
Endorsement of installers extends responsibility (like it or not). If you use a manufacturer endorsement to distinguish yourself from competitors, then the manufacturer owns some of the responsibility for the install.
I'm a fan of putting responsibility where it belongs (bad install = bad installer) but find a lawsuit that doesn't name everybody in the chain of events, and find a referee who won't accept greater manufacturer responsibility due to installer endorsement.
j

FYI Geo pro is not an endorsement or certification, it's simply means we have gone thru the training and installed a certain number of units. It is a guide post that tells a potential client how much experience a contractor has installing WF systems. Personally I would rather work with a company that offers training and give dealers goals to attain than deal with the alternitive.
Ponder this- does GM take responsibility when MR. Goodwrench screws up your brake job or does the Goodwrench dealer who Mr. Goodwrench works for have to take the responsibility?

I don't think we disagree.
I am on board with the notion that installers should be responsible for the installation. Really.
However when I authored a thread that suggested people put too much responsibility on the manufacturer, one of the contrary arguments that popped up most was...."they trained the installer, they advertise for the installer, they accept some responsibility."
There is a symbiosis just as surely as you accepting responsibility for installing a faulty product. Couldn't you just say "I did my part right?" If you did do you think the truth of that would protect you from suit?
Yes I'm playing devils advocate. It is a mind set here and now even if it's not yours or mine.
Joe

I accepted responsibility because the manufacturer would not, I spent the money not on lawyers but on equipment, labor and goodwill. In the end I can hold my head up and everyone of my clients becomes a reference. Which is more than I can say for a certain other brand who would have had at least another 200K worth of business from me this year.....sorry!
I agree with you I would most certainly have been named in a suit, right or wrong.
We could all save a ton of dough if installers and manufactures alike stepped up to the plate and did the right thing for our clients and the future of this industry.
Yes it's a mind set, the best thing we can do is to not let a client get to the point of "going legal"
I agreee we don't disagree.

Well said. I applaud your customer commitment and suggest you refer future clients here. It's a resource that offers a glimpse at your character and answers to questions from end users and contractors that aren't trying to sell them something.
J