Alternatives to "Great Stuff"??
Last Post 14 Dec 2009 07:47 AM by rykertest. 9 Replies.
Printer Friendly
Sort:
PrevPrev NextNext
You are not authorized to post a reply.
Author Messages
thunksalotUser is Offline
New Member
New Member
Send Private Message
Posts:12

--
10 Dec 2009 11:02 PM

I realize that Great Stuff is great when it comes to quickly sealing things up, but it is not great in a lot of other respects:

  • it gets on and ruins your clothes
  • it gets on and doesn't come off your hands so you have to wear gloves
  • you have to tape over or seal materials nearby so errant Great Stuff can be cleaned off them without a lot of wiping and scraping
  • the huge number of safety warnings on it lead me to believe it is toxic
  • unless you have a job that requires *exactly* one can, you end up wasting a lot because once you stop using a can, it dries up in the tube and you can't use it again.

After using at least 10 cans of the stuff, I'm not at all convinced it is really great stuff. But, everywhere I read and hear about weatherization everyone prescribes it. Are there really no better alternatives? I've searched online and was unsuccessful in finding any meaningful comparison of Great Stuff to any alternative products.

Recently, a friend moved and gave me a whole box of opened cans of paint, drywall compound, etc. In it, I discovered an open can of DAPtex Plus, which I used to seal around a window. It was great! It is water-soluble so it cleans up easily. It doesn't appear to be nearly as toxic. You can save a half-empty can for later reuse. You don't have to chisel off foam that has expanded too much. And it seems to block airflow just fine. The only disadvantage I saw was that it takes (much) longer to cure. And, it looks like it costs a dollar more per can. Is there some other disadvantage? If not, why don't green building people recommend DAPtex Plus instead of Great Stuff? Or at least mention it as an alternative?

cmkavalaUser is Offline
Veteran Member
Veteran Member
Send Private Message
Posts:4324
Avatar

--
11 Dec 2009 06:09 AM
thunksalot;

The great stuff instructions tell you to wear gloves, anyone using expanding foam on a regular basis shoud stay away from the DIY kits and buy the gun type,(gun is about $30.) with cleaner and screw on cans, They are cleanable and reuseable, are available at any drywall supply house, HILTI and many others.
But glove are still a must or let it wear off in 2 days
Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br />
greentreeUser is Offline
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
Send Private Message
Posts:587

--
11 Dec 2009 07:28 AM
I second Chris.
Your lack of a gun is the problem. The can stays on the gun until its empty so you dont have to throw away 1/2 cans, you have control over the size of the bead allowing less overfill. More control and not having to grasp the flexible straw means no foam on your hands or clothes. I think you get way more yield per can size and the control factor minimizes waste.

The guns have a universal thread so you can use other brands if you're concerned about the toxic content if there is any of significance, I believe there are some "eco" brands.

The trick to eliminating the messy wiping and scraping is to let overspray cure first, resist the temptation to clean it up. If you try to wipe it up uncured you make a huge mess, if you let it cure the bond is only where you shot the foam, not on adjacent surfaces and it will break off clean.

I have the Hilti gun but am not impressed. I recently got a Great Stuff Pro 14 gun and like it much better.
thunksalotUser is Offline
New Member
New Member
Send Private Message
Posts:12

--
11 Dec 2009 10:45 AM

I'm a DIYer, not a building professional so spending $40 (the price at my local store) on a gun certainly defeats any cost saving Great Stuff has over DAPtek. Judging by the Great Stuff display cases stationed in the walkways at the local hardware box store, I'm guessing there are a lot of DIYers like me using Great Stuff without a gun (because it doesn't make economic sense for us to buy a gun).

So, I guess my question is this: Are there performance reasons why I would want to hassle with Great Stuff instead of using DAPtek? If there aren't, I'd like to tell several local nonprofits that have flyers and checklists on DIY weatherization to switch from promoting Great Stuff to prescribing DAPtek. Unless Great Stuff performs dramatically better than DAPtek, it seems like it loses to DAPtek in every other characteristic a DIYer would care about. It may be a dollar cheaper, but if you have to buy gloves, throw away half-used cans, and any clothes unfortunate enough to get in the way, the dollar savings go out the window really fast.

cmkavalaUser is Offline
Veteran Member
Veteran Member
Send Private Message
Posts:4324
Avatar

--
11 Dec 2009 11:26 AM
You asked for alternatives, so that what I offered you
if I am in a bind and need a little foam I will run to the Homer too, great stuff also has mini-cans as well so there is little waste.
I am not fond of the DAPtek from a quality standpoint it does not expand well, but it depends on the ultimate use. if you are going around windows and doors or trying to close up big gaps.
To each his own .........thats why there are other products
Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br />
greentreeUser is Offline
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
Send Private Message
Posts:587

--
12 Dec 2009 09:04 AM
Yes there are performance reasons and some distinct limitations that are stated on Daps website that make Great Stuff better and some notes on Great Stuffs website that explain the difference between a latex based foam and polyurethane that I think are significant. A little research on your part and you too can find out why Great Stuff is better, look at the MSDS to compare the chemicals contained in the two.
vbUser is Offline
New Member
New Member
Send Private Message
Posts:88

--
13 Dec 2009 04:46 PM
I have had some luck re-using Great stuff by pouring a little MEK or tolulene in the tube and nozzle imediately after using to clean out. this usually only works once or twice. Also DON'T let the over spray of great stuff dry on linoleum. It will not come off. Clean up when still wet with recommended solvent. ( this was a nightmare for me once)
thunksalotUser is Offline
New Member
New Member
Send Private Message
Posts:12

--
13 Dec 2009 10:42 PM
Posted By cmkavala on 12/11/2009 11:26 AM
You asked for alternatives, so that what I offered you


I apologize if my response above came across as unappreciative of your suggestions. I did appreciate your quick response and good advice on the Great Stuff gun. My follow up was intended to explain a little more about my situation and hone in on another part of my question that I had realized was of particular interest. It was definitely not intended as a rejection of your advice. Thanks for all your help.
thunksalotUser is Offline
New Member
New Member
Send Private Message
Posts:12

--
13 Dec 2009 11:32 PM
Posted By greentree on 12/12/2009 9:04 AM
Yes there are performance reasons and some distinct limitations that are stated on Daps website that make Great Stuff better and some notes on Great Stuffs website that explain the difference between a latex based foam and polyurethane that I think are significant. A little research on your part and you too can find out why Great Stuff is better, look at the MSDS to compare the chemicals contained in the two.
br>
I had in fact looked at both the DAP and Great Stuff websites previously without finding a good "us vs them" comparison in either place, or anywhere else online. But, with your encouragement, greentree, I went back and dug some more. Since what I dug up may be useful to others I thought I'd post it here.

I found no performance disclaimers on the DAP "Solutions for your home" website. They seem to recommend their latex foam for window and door sealing jobs with no reservations. The only distinction they made between when to use latex vs polyeurethane foam seemed to be when the gap is larger than 2".

On the Great Stuff website, I found this buried in an FAQ page:

[i]How are latex products different from GREAT STUFF™? There are two key differences between latex foam and GREAT STUFF™, which is a polyurethane foam:
1. Latex foams are typically "open cell" and, as a result, can take on water. In fact, the same properties that allow you to wash latex foam off your hands with water also mean that the cured foam can absorb water. This can cause wood rot or deterioration in areas where wet latex foam is next to wood, such as a window frame. In contrast, GREAT STUFF™ is a closed-cell foam. It forms a water-resistant outer coating when cured.
2. Latex foam does not expand. GREAT STUFF™ expands to thoroughly fill all voids and cavities making it an ideal air sealant.[/i]

So, is DAP ignoring/downplaying the threat of using their latex foam near windows and doors?

Now that I know that DAPtex Plus is an open-cell foam, I've been able to find more things that compare the performance of these two types of foam products. Articles like this one on the Green Building Advisor compare open and closed polyeurethane foams, but I'm assuming that latex open-cell foams have the same permeance problem as the polyeurethane open-cell foam. The thing that seems unsatisfying about articles like that one, however, is that they are comparing closed and open cell foams for whole wall or whole floor encapsulation. In those applications, I can see that using an open cell foam would adversely affect the "reversibility" permeance requirement, but in the application where DIYers are weatherizing the gaps around their windows and doors, it seems like the little seam of foam around the window wouldn't throw off the moisture performance of a whole wall. I could turn that into a question, but don't worry, I'll give ya'll a break and take that question over there.

rykertestUser is Offline
Basic Member
Basic Member
Send Private Message
Posts:202

--
14 Dec 2009 07:47 AM
we have about 2 people a month come in and buy a gun and our icf foam from nudura. They aren't or didn't build a nudura or icf home, but they use our guns and foam to seal the crap out of their stick built homes and other projects. You could go that route with any of the major icf guys in your area. I'm sure they could help you out with that. Be careful around the doors and windows though that you don't over foam.
You are not authorized to post a reply.

Active Forums 4.1
Membership Membership: Latest New User Latest: dliese New Today New Today: 0 New Yesterday New Yesterday: 0 User Count Overall: 34724
People Online People Online: Visitors Visitors: 111 Members Members: 0 Total Total: 111
Copyright 2011 by BuildCentral, Inc.   Terms Of Use  Privacy Statement