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knosack
Registered Users
Posts:1
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| 07/23/2001 6:03 PM |
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This is a continuation of my first post. Since I wasn't registered, I couldn't reply to it. (I'm now registered)
======= previous post ==========
I got some estimates on ICF systems, SIPs and traditional framing. The basement was $7100 traditional, ICF ~$7500. Real close. However, for the main level, traditional framing was ~$2500 ($800 insul, $1000 lumber, $700 labor) whereas SIP was $6400 for material only and ICF was around $7000. Does this sound about right?
One more thing. Since my builder is new to ICF, he's worried about time. His uncle took weeks to do some projects, whereas he says regular foundation should be done in a couple of days. Any comments greatly appreciated.
========= end previous post =========
More info:
1. Building shape is pretty much square with 12 corners and two T's in the basement. Main floor has 12 corners.
2. Wall height: 9' basement, 8' main, except living/dining area which is 10' ( ~40 linear feet).
3. Interior: sheetrock, exterior: stucco with front brick wainscoat (4'), though I'm not sure how this matters (brickledge?)
4. Not sure how to explain this easily. 8 windows on main (avg. 4040), plus an 18' length of the 10' wall which will be mostly windows and french doors.
5. Wall perimiter ~185' per level.
I calculated roughly 3500 sq. ft. of wall, minus windows (230 sq. ft.), to come up with 3270 sq. ft. of wall. The icf quote my builder gave me was for 4651 total wall footage (included main, basement and garage, and didn't account for windows I bet) and came to nearly $15K (installed). I don't think it included rebar, or cement even (based on other bids and conversations with icf salespeople). So, it's looking like roughly $10K additional for icf vs traditional framing. I'm not looking to get within even $1000 on this, just want to know I'm in the ballpark (and hopefully on the high side).
Thanks!
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markross
Registered Users
Posts:1035
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| 07/27/2001 10:29 AM |
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knosack:
It does sound a little low, if it includes cement, however if it does not include cement and rebar, it sounds a little high.
He should be sitting about $10.00 for wall square footage, with an added cost of about $17.50 per square foot of window opening(they require a fair amount of work to install).
Happy building.
Mark Ross
"Le Canuck" |
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Ian ICF Builders
Registered Users
Posts:612
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| 07/28/2001 7:05 PM |
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| Where are you located? Does the basement include waterproofing in the price? What are you planning to use for window bucks? What brand of ICF were you quoted? What is the average cost per yard of 3/8" 3000 psi concrete in your area? |
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icfbiz
Registered Users
Posts:6
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| 08/18/2001 2:26 AM |
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I JUST WENT HEADS UP AGAINST THREE BIG CONSTRUCTION COMPANIES TO BUILD 12 20'X 24' CONSESSION STANDS. I TOLD THE BID TAKER'S THAT I.C.F. WOULD BE ABOUT 10% HIGHER THAN THE 2X CONSTRUCTION THE OTHER WERE USING. DON'T ASK ME HOW BUT I CAME IN AT THE LOWEST BID. I USED LOCAL CONTRACTOR THAT I'VE USED IN THE PAST. I ONLY INSTALLED THE I.C.F. BUT GENERALED THE WHOLE JOB. SO CHECK AROUND. FOR MORE INFO ON THIS PROJECT SUGGEST THE BEST WAY TO TELL IT. I'M LOST ON THIS WEB SITE NOW.
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panelbuilt
Registered Users
Posts:52
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| 08/20/2001 10:07 PM |
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There are many factors that are never considered whenever one trys to make a comparison of high energy effcient building products like ICFs and SIPs to stick frame construction. You cannot simply compare a pile of plate stock and studs and some bales of insulation to that of the other building systems.
Your factor of $ 700.00 for labor for the stick frame is very misleading. In my neck of the woods that amount of money would be spent in a 10 hour period for two journeymen, or a 12 hour period for a journeyman and couple of apprentice / laborers. Your builder must be incredible if he can build anything more than
a small outbuilding for that amount of money.
Did your stick frame builder factor in the cost to break down the lumber piles and move them around the jobsite. Did he factor the cost to clean up the waste ( particularly from the fall off of the shearwall work ). Did he factor the cost to run to the dump and the dump fees to get rid of the waste. Did he figure the labor cost to repair the stick frame when 20% twists of it twists so badly it needs to be replaced. Did he factor that you will have to repurchase between 5 to 10 per cent of the studs you just paid good money for to replace the wood that you wouldn't dare attach finishes to. Did he factor in the costs for you to pay for repairing drywall cracks a year or so due to shrinkage of framing members in your new home.
These are just a few of the misconceptions that are overlooked when doing a proper conparison to other buidling systems. Both ICF and SIP structures do not have any of these issues to factor and the poor quality of the building materials installed during the build and how they affect the finished product are just a few of the reasons builders and homeowners look to ICFs and SIPs for their homes.
The most important factor you should be looking at is your energy costs. A stick frame
builder can be a perfectionist and will build you the most energy efficient structure he can using the materials he used to - loose batt insulation and 2x's. Then do your research on whole wall testing of that building system only to discover that using 2 x 6 construction and loose batt insulation with an R-19 insualtion factor that it actually performs only to an R-factor of R13. ICFs and SIPs are solid wall construction and the R-factor drop in whole wall testing is minimal, maintaining the R-Factor you were seeking for your energy performance at the initial build.
ICFs and SIPs have proven time and again that
after a five year period you are paid back on your initial investment and your home begins to make you substantial amounts of money in lower energy costs compared to your neighbor next door.
ICF construction ranges between $ 10.00 to
$ 15.00 per square foot of wall surface depending on which system you're working with. That square foot number covers the entire cost
(rebar, cement, labor, ect.)
My comments are based on 24 years as a General Contractor ( 11 years as a stick framer ) and
13 years as a builder and installer of both SIP and ICF building systems.I discovered ICFs and SIPs in 1989 and never looked back.
Do more research and get better cost comparison factors, I believe you'll know which choice to make.
Jim Crowley |
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