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Barret Roosa
Registered Users
Posts:12
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| 11/29/2001 9:07 AM |
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I am owner building, with GC consultation, a 2700 sq ft, 2 story with basement home and I have 2 questions regarding high pours:
1. On an earlier post someone had mentioned cutting holes every so many feet as an access to an ICF cavity for a high pour. Someone else mentioned using a long spout. With the high cost of a pump, these methods are attractive to me, but as a DIY'er that will employ what I expect to be ICF beginners, but concrete experienced help, I wonder if this is too much to bite off?
2. I will be using Arxx blocks with their alignment system. This system looks like it will work well for the basement and 1st floor. With higher walls than that, what are some ideas on alignment?
Thanks in advance!
Barret
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Ian ICF Builders
Registered Users
Posts:612
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| 11/29/2001 11:22 AM |
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I suggest you talk with the people that you are buying the block from. Ask them if they have any suggestions for your application. Additionally, You may want to ask them if they provide (either included or for an additional fee) someone that can work on site that has experience in high wall pours. That person should be able to assist you with nearly every question you come up with. If they don't have anyone available, you may want to post your location on this forum and ask for help.
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markross
Registered Users
Posts:1035
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| 11/29/2001 11:58 PM |
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Barret Roosa
goto www.arit.com and have a look at the 3rd picture down (26' high pool house pour) Recommendation; Hire a profession as Ian suggests, these types of pours are not for the novice.
Mark Ross
"Le Canuck"
Edited by - markross on 11/30/2001 00:02:17 |
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Unregistered
Registered Users
Posts:2321
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| 11/30/2001 3:06 PM |
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Looks like a porcupine sitting on his butt. Just left a message for my supplier.
Thanks! |
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panelbuilt
Registered Users
Posts:52
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| 11/30/2001 4:31 PM |
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I can see how an active imagination could see that as a porcupine sitting on it's butt. Wow
that's a s...load of bracing.
I'm not quite up on the requirements of every different system when it comes to high pours nor the restrictions with other systems.
We commonly pour 12 foot lifts with the system we use. We order a 6 sac pea gravel mix with a plastisizer. The plastisizer will allow the concrete to flow with ease. We do don't have any concerns with separation and voids. We also have the pumping company use a nozzel with an S bend in it to slow the concrete down and help avoid separation of fluids and materials. There is an extra cost to go with that type of mix, but it makes for an easy pour and peace of mind.
Pouring of the concrete into the forms is the mindless part of the job and I don't see where
a professional would be required, but then as I stated, I'm not aware of all of the issues with other ICF systems when it comes to high pours.
Jim Crowley |
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Ian ICF Builders
Registered Users
Posts:612
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| 11/30/2001 9:23 PM |
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Jim: changing phone wires around in a pedestal is mindless work for the phone company man that has been doing it for years. Changing a transmission out of a car is mindless work for the auto mechanic that has done it a hundred times.....I suppose that the first time you turned on a computer you thought it was mindless work to "go online"....For a novice to have an experienced hand on site to "assist" workers on what to look for and what to do may appear needless to you, but what about to that very novice that doesn't know any better ...kind of akin to letting small children play on the freeway...some may be able to do it without getting run over, but it only takes one to get run over to ruin the day. In this case, he only has one chance to get it right. Do you play the lottery by chance?...probably not since you would win of course! (humor intended)
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OKBlocker
Registered Users
Posts:635
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| 11/30/2001 9:33 PM |
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Jim,
You stated:
"Pouring of the concrete into the forms is the mindless part of the job and I don't see where a professional would be required."
Wow!!!, I find this one of the biggest and most important issues in pouring concrete into ICF's.
In the old days, I used to have a guy that would spell me off on the hose on large pours, I would have zero blow-outs as long as I was on the hose and as soon as he got on the hose, we would have a blow-out.
I strongly disagree, it is one of the most important jobs in the overall application.
I like you recipe though.....does the plastisizer hender your ability to make high lifts?
Ian, what's your take on this? Mark? |
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Ian ICF Builders
Registered Users
Posts:612
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| 12/01/2001 8:28 AM |
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Tim nearly all concrete we place has admixtures in it...whether we know it or not. The concrete also has a percentage of fly ash as well.
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OKBlocker
Registered Users
Posts:635
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| 12/01/2001 4:02 PM |
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Ian,
Here's a mix design that we use most of the time.
360 lbs cement
150 lbs Flyash
1200 lbs 3/8" chip
1880 lbs fine sand
27 gallons water
4.8 oz air
We use a retarded in the summer time but I haven't used the plastisizer in high pours. |
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enermizermuskoka
Registered Users
Posts:272
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| 12/04/2001 5:05 PM |
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Tim,Ian- Right On! Mr. Jim sir,please say it's been a day(mindless you say to do the pour,C'mon now there Jim- It truly does compare with the games of Chess, Risk, Kerplunk and Russian Roulette all rolled into
one) pouring the whole darn thing-IS THE WHOLE DARN THING. The results are FINAL, similar to a gun fight. Except in this case
the loser pays for a high-ho,wrecking ball,
removal and then the burying.
Back to the topic- I like Ian's response to this. Let Arxx tell you how it
should be done, but that sure sounds like an
awful lot of wall to do at once. What type of floor system will be integrated in this I
wonder? It may very well be better to do this in 2 pours? Take-care,Sincerely. C.Kerr
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panelbuilt
Registered Users
Posts:52
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| 12/15/2001 1:08 PM |
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Been real busy as of late and not had time to respond to my wake up call.
Okay, okay, okay, mindless was a mindless word to use.
Ian put it in the proper perspective and the rest of you drove the point home. Point well taken. I guess the volumes of concrete that I have poured made me forget my apprehension of the first time I poured a high wall of concrete.
Plastizer is an admix that takes the place of water to make the concrete flow easier when placed in the forms. Water is still part of the mix but in a lesser volume. It also will keep the different elements of the mix from separating. Ideal for high lift pours. Vibrating is not required with the ICF system we use and the plastizer gels the mix while allowing it to flow easy. We're ont concerned with the possibility of voids and we don't have to do double lifts creating cold joints with this mix.
I guess it isn't so mindless after all. What was I thinking ???
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Ian ICF Builders
Registered Users
Posts:612
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| 12/15/2001 7:30 PM |
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All will be forgotten after you buy the first round in New Orleans.....
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