LARRY
Registered Users
Posts:123
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| 02/07/2002 10:47 AM |
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Other than using a hot knife, what is the best way to route for wiring and boxes in ICF's. I would like to use a router, but I don't know if the router will go deep enough for the boxes.
Also, is it best to use plastic or metal boxes for outlets/switches in ICF's? What is a good glue/caulk to secure them to the foam?
Thanks again......Larry |
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badchad
Registered Users
Posts:66
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| 02/07/2002 1:49 PM |
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Larry,
I'm sure that everyone has several techniques for doing this, but a router and bit can be a bit on the messy (additional clean up time). You can use the router to do your chases for you wires. As for the boxes, a technique is to press the box (face in) into the foam until it leaves an impression, then use a drywall whole saw or even a steak knife with teeth to cut the impression lines and to make an "X" through the middle. I you can then use the claw of a hammer or even a pry bar (about a 2" wide one) to carve the foam out to the depth of the box. I'm sure someone has a quick technique.
As far a fastening the boxes in you should check your local building code (if you are governed by one) to see how they want the boxes anchored and the wire in the chases protected. Some areas require the box to be fastened to the structure such as TAPCOM into the concrete behind or anchored to a web. There are boxes out there that have a flange on one or both sides that you could screw into the web. As for the type of boxes both plastic and metal can be used, I'm not an electrician but I'm sure both have issues. If you just want to glue them in I would use spray foam, but make sure it has good adhesion.
Most of the houses I've seen just us plastic boxes.
Hope this helps,
Chad Newman
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enermizermuskoka
Registered Users
Posts:272
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| 02/07/2002 5:40 PM |
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Well put Chad. Larry, Ultimately you do want
to check with your Inspector- as that person
may dictate the acceptable procedure for your
given situation. You certainly do not want
to go through all the effort- only to be told
to "Rip it all out". The issue may boil down
to "Educating" this authority to precidence.
As for cutting, Save the router. It's a
good thing to keep for wood. I have also
used an electric chainsaw without oil(and is
now used solely for I.C.F.'s- because it's
screwed up for anything else) If you place
2 bottle lid's on each side of the bar, and
connect them via a bolt and nut through the
oil hole on the chainbar, it will serve as a
depth guage. The depth is changed by the size
of the lid. You can also take a "sawsall" and
simply bend the blade in a J shape,and have at it. Boxes- in my opinion no different to
install. As for foam adheisive, I personaly
like the EnerFoam in the Big can & gun stuff.
Glue only the boxes mind you, as I'm told that foaming the wiring in place may insulate
the wiring too much that they may melt themselves. Anyway I'd check with local code.
Hope this helps, Take-care. Sincerely.C.Kerr |
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Ian ICF Builders
Registered Users
Posts:612
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| 02/07/2002 5:44 PM |
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Go buy the cheapest electric chainsaw you can. Should be about fifty bucks. Assemble the saw and DON'T put any oil in the chain oil reservoir. Wear safety glasses and use the saw to cut the chases. allow the chain to ride on the concrete. You can use the saw to cut the rectangles for the boxes as well. Don't try to cut the box hole exactly...you may want to be able to adjust the boxes before you use foam 2 foam adhesive to set them straight. Use a tapcon screw to anchor the plastic box mechanically to the concrete. The groove created by the saw is just wide enough for a friction fit of 12/2 wire. Use adhesive every 2' or so to keep the wire in place against the concrete (approximately 2" from the surface of the foam or 2'1/2" from the surface of 1/2" drywall...If you are using a decent block)
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LARRY
Registered Users
Posts:123
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| 02/08/2002 12:04 PM |
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Thanks for the info guys.
...Larry |
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LARRY
Registered Users
Posts:123
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| 02/11/2002 8:05 AM |
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Well, I actually set some electrical boxes this weekend. I went out and bought an electric chain saw. This was a well spent $40. My friend who is an electrician gave me a hand. He felt that wiring the foam was easier than pulling wire thru studs.
At first, we just glued the boxes in with enerfoam. As we proceeded, we concluded that is was better to use tapcons to fasten the boxes and then glue them because as the foam expanded, the boxes would sometimes twist and "push-out".
.....larry
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jmbouvier
Registered Users
Posts:1
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| 02/20/2002 5:59 PM |
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| You might try electrical boxes for steel studs. They have a flange on them so its easy to attach them to the strips in the block. This way they won't move when foamed. |
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markross
Registered Users
Posts:1035
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| 02/20/2002 9:14 PM |
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Ian:
Noticed you said "foam to foam" how do you like the stuff compared to the enerfoam, Its a reference for the product. Thank you for any reply.
Mark Ross
"Le Canuck" |
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Ian ICF Builders
Registered Users
Posts:612
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| 02/23/2002 9:50 PM |
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Mark: foam to foam performs well enough for most of our uses. Last weekend I used it to adhere Hardi together....stronger than nails.
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markross
Registered Users
Posts:1035
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| 02/24/2002 3:00 PM |
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Thanks Ian. I will call them.
Mark Ross
"Le Canuck" |
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Unregistered
Registered Users
Posts:2321
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| 03/01/2002 3:19 PM |
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I used a router with a 1/4 inch spiral cutting (drywall cutting) bit. Worked Great for the chases.
For the boxes I whacked the box face-first to mark the wall, cut the preimeter with a keyhole saw and popped the foam out with the claw on my hammer (rather straight claw as opposed to a more curved claw that most have).
I cut down a cedar shim until one end of it was 1/4" wide and used that end to clear the chases of foam bits. From then I think it was easier to stuff wire in the slot with the shim than it is to run thew wire through wood stud walls. |
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jbsgroup
Registered Users
Posts:43
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| 03/24/2002 12:12 AM |
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I just got done wiring a whole house w/ 12/2 & I used 1/2" emt metal conduit & metal boxes. I cut a trench in the foam @ the 16 3/4" height (this avoids cutting the plastic strips, ease of installation) where they join & installed the conduit & dead ended the box where they needed to go, and I used juction boxes to contiune my electrical run etc. I used metal boxes so I could shoot the box right into the concrete (plastic boxes wont hold up as well as the metal boxes that are shot in) & of course I dug out the foam some. The reason for the metal emt conduit is for the drywallers & the future home owner that like to hang things on the wall, this will aid in the safety of the consumer & avoiding penentration in to the wire along w/ the ease of wire replacment. Plus some codes require that you cover the wire w/ a metal strip to avoid such things as I mentioned when drywall or other items are to be installed in the home or building.
Have A Great Day!
JBSGROUP,
South Florida I.C.F. Distributors |
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James Eggert
Registered Users
Posts:1001
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| 03/24/2002 12:22 PM |
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I believe the electrical code calls for 1 1/4" depth from face of rough framing to avoid code issues. The use of conduit is a great way to avoid any issues with your inspector, but can be time consuming unless planned properly.
I have added 1-2 man-days for the electrician, who I work with to help route the wiring. I am not the elctrician, but as the gc we help to achieve code compliance.
The first ICF house we did, after routing the walls for wires, and attaching boxes with Tapcons instead of power shots(personal preference) we sprayed all the wiring with orange marking paint to provide the rockers with a visual note of wiring locations. The inspector loved it and the pictures really look strange, but in those days we were all learning different ways to achieve an end.
If we can set-up the right router and bit, maybe I'll try the conduit route next time.
Take Care
Jim |
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Take Care
Jim
Design/Build/Consulting
"Not So Big" Design Proponent |
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jbsgroup
Registered Users
Posts:43
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| 03/24/2002 1:31 PM |
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Excellent point about the man hours , that is a real time line as far as I'm concerned.
I liked the idea about the orange paint. I will use that in the next home I build just as a way of pointing out to the rockers & inspectors. Thanks for the info.
Have A Great day!
JBSGROUP,
South Florida I.C.F. Distributors |
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