Add'l Soundproofing on ICF Home -- Overkill ?
Last Post 19 Mar 2008 11:50 PM by Opus . 13 Replies.
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lambabbeyUser is Offline
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16 Mar 2008 10:47 PM
Hey, folks

I just joined these forums a few minutes ago after having done a bunch of searches online for info about ICF construction and soundproofing.    I've noticed a number of threads on here about the various soundproofing products on the market such as Green Glue and QuietRock, but most were specifically addressing structures where the STC was pretty dismal to begin with.

I'm building a new home this coming Fall for myself.   It's a relatively small place (1,700 sq ft) and is going to be dropped right into the middle of what eventually will be a busy and bustling orchard.    Although noise won't be an issue initially, I'm building this home for the longhaul and want to err on the side of excess when it comes to soundproofing.    I understand the the STC for the ICF's I'll be using (Logix) is around 50, which will be a good solid sound barrier.   But I'm interested in considering additional soundproofing just to make my home dead-quiet inside, particularly when there are tractors and other loud machinery 30 feet away (I work from a home office).    I'm a peace-and-quiet kinda guy.

Has anyone out there used QuietRock in conjunction with ICFs?   I'm interested particularly in QuietRock 525 and would use it on all the outer above-grade walls as well as beneath the SIP roof.   We'd be talking about 3,200 sq ft of the stuff to do the job.    Is this overkill and a classic case of gilding the lily?    What would the difference be, in practical terms, between a structure rated STC 50 vs one that is STC 74?   

By the way, the house will be ICFs from the footers to the roofline, and the roof itself will be SIPs.

I'd appreciate any feedback.   Thanks.

John


John A Gasbarre<br>Lamb Abbey Orchards<br>Union, ME 04862<br>[email protected]<br>
Chris JohnsonUser is Offline
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17 Mar 2008 12:14 AM
I can't answer for the SIPS portion, but on the ICF portion you will not notice any difference, save your money and put it into better quality windows

Chris Johnson - Pro ICF<br>North of 49
lambabbeyUser is Offline
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17 Mar 2008 12:43 AM
Posted By Chris Johnson on 03/17/2008 12:14 AM
I can't answer for the SIPS portion, but on the ICF portion you will not notice any difference, save your money and put it into better quality windows




Chris:

I appreciate the feedback.  

The answer could be to just use the QuietRock below the SIP roof.   I'm already going with the best windows I could find.

I'm curious to hear what other folks think.   Thanks for the note.

John


John A Gasbarre<br>Lamb Abbey Orchards<br>Union, ME 04862<br>[email protected]<br>
CFL-ICFUser is Offline
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17 Mar 2008 08:54 AM

like the above poster. i dont know about the sip roof.

 

but one of the house we built was right next to a very busy toll road and in the direct path of the local executive airport in the orlando florida area. those private jets are very loud. inside the house you dont hear a thing. outide you can't hear the person next to you until it passes over.

it was icf walls. with spay foamed attic.

the sip roof i would imagine to be close to the same as a spray foamed conventional attic.

so agian like they poster above said spend the extra on the best insulated windows you can find.

jimUser is Offline
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18 Mar 2008 12:27 AM
I can't speak to the product you mentioned, but our house is ICF from footer to roof, and we hear noise through the windows, not the walls.

You may want to look at the triple glazed, hurricane rated windows that are common in Germany.  I don't recall the brand, but there are distributors in the US.  They will surely cost more than your average Pella, but when I spoke to the rep for the manufacturer in 2006, I recalled that the price wasn't terrible.


davidh1963User is Offline
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18 Mar 2008 09:04 AM
I'm in agreement with everyone else that has posted.

Put more money and thought into windows, doors, ceilings, and interior sound control as well.

I live in a passive solar 2 story ICF house with a steel truss supported, stained concrete second floor. It has a wood truss, composite shingle roof with ~r50 blown cellulose. Windows are two pane vinyl casement. When it storms (wind, hard rain, hail), the difference between upstairs and downstairs is striking because of sound transfer through the roof.

I have a cat that has grown up in this house. She is scared to go outside because of all the noises that are apparent as soon as you open the door.

Because there is so little background noise from outside, and the use of stained concrete floors for solar gain storage, and even though there is battted fiberglass insulation in the wood stud walls around each bedroom, it's hard to move around with out being heard when on the same floor. Which can be a problem when the waking/sleeping hours of family members don't match. It's not so much a problem from floor to floor. 

Next time I will use casement windows again, but 3 pane fiberglass framed (from Canada or northern US), switch to sprayed foam for the ceiling insulation. Won't put radiant heat in the floors except in the bathrooms.
greenownerbuilderUser is Offline
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18 Mar 2008 11:18 AM
agreed, windows will be your source of noise. Spend your money on them instead of soundproofing. Unless you were near an airport like the other poster, a SIPS roof won't give you much more soundproofing than a traditional roof system that is well insulated.

Spend money on windows and attic insulation(if your goal by using SIPS is soundproofing alone)
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lambabbeyUser is Offline
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18 Mar 2008 02:28 PM
Posted By greenownerbuilder on 03/18/2008 11:18 AM
agreed, windows will be your source of noise. Spend your money on them instead of soundproofing. Unless you were near an airport like the other poster, a SIPS roof won't give you much more soundproofing than a traditional roof system that is well insulated.

Spend money on windows and attic insulation(if your goal by using SIPS is soundproofing alone)

Frankly, I'd LIKE to add more attic insulation for additional soundproofing, but the attic space directly below the roof SIPs is being turned into a finished attic loft, open clear to the SIPs.   I'm trying to identify solutions that would add soundproofing to the ceiling without losing much more ceiling height.   Apparently QuietRock (by Quiet Solutions) doesn't do much on solid surfaces; it needs to be installed over an air chamber of some sort to reap its benefits.   I've also heard of a product mentioned in these Forums called Integra S2 (from Greencor Composites) but I've left numerous messages with the company and have gotten no response nor human being when I've called.   I gather it's being run from someone's basement.

Any other suggestions greatly appreciated.


John
John A Gasbarre<br>Lamb Abbey Orchards<br>Union, ME 04862<br>[email protected]<br>
CFL-ICFUser is Offline
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18 Mar 2008 03:09 PM

well how about skip the sip and go with a icf roof like insul-deck.

 

complete monolithic steal reinforced concrete shell. doesnt get any better or quieter than that.

:)

lambabbeyUser is Offline
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18 Mar 2008 04:15 PM
Posted By CFL-ICF on 03/18/2008 3:09 PM

well how about skip the sip and go with a icf roof like insul-deck.

 

complete monolithic steal reinforced concrete shell. doesnt get any better or quieter than that.

:)


I'll let YOU be the guinea pig on putting insul-deck on a 12/12 roof.


John
John A Gasbarre<br>Lamb Abbey Orchards<br>Union, ME 04862<br>[email protected]<br>
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19 Mar 2008 09:18 AM

pour it out on the ground and use a crane. we have are own crane so would not be a problem.

only problem i see is were in florida and your in ME. :)

 

so i guess thats not going to happen. good luck in your search.

AltonUser is Offline
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19 Mar 2008 03:50 PM
With the right form, shotcrete would work well with a 12/12 roof.
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lambabbeyUser is Offline
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19 Mar 2008 04:18 PM
Posted By Alton on 03/19/2008 3:50 PM
With the right form, shotcrete would work well with a 12/12 roof.

Shotcrete has been use only once so far on a 12/12 roof (as I've been told by the folks at Insul-Deck) and that was a year ago on a place in Missouri.  

I don't know that I'm ready to be another guinea pig for that approach.    And I'm committed to the 12/12 roof.


John
John A Gasbarre<br>Lamb Abbey Orchards<br>Union, ME 04862<br>[email protected]<br>
Opus User is Offline
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19 Mar 2008 11:50 PM
Shotcrete is used on vertical surfaces all the time. If you can shotcrete a vertical pool wall I'm sure you could shotcrete a roof. Screeding the suface flat could be a be the problem but I suppose you could start at the ridge and work down.
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