|
|
You are not authorized to post a reply.
|
 Prev Next
|
| Author |
Messages |
|
Grant Garcia
Registered Users
Posts:1
 |
| 08/30/2008 11:32 PM |
|
I CAN SEE THERE ARE LOTS OF PROFFESIONALS HERE!
May i please ask for your input?
Today i started laying the ICFs for an addition full basement.
The ICF company whose blocks i am using provide a tech. drawing showing a minimum 8" lintel height, with two continuous runs of rebar and the stirrups.
Is there any way to reduce the height of the lintel, perhaps to 2- 4 inches?
The reason is i am trying to keep the windows as high as possible?
I would appreciate anyones input!
Sincerely
Grant
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Aaron McKinney
Registered Users
Posts:44
|
| 08/31/2008 8:56 AM |
|
How wide are your windows? How much weight will be sitting over those lintels? Are there any other factors any one else sees here that I am missing? I believe you can, if you can come up with something that will work for what you are trying to do, and which you can also get your engineer to agree with. My advice would be to get creative about it and make sure you are confident that whatever you come up with will work. I have seen a 4" lintel before, but had a very minimal roof load sitting on it with shorter spans (around 6') and had a 3x top plate. I believe we used 4 #4 horizonals in a 6" cavity.
|
|
|
|
|
Paul Stevens
Registered Users
Posts:143
|
| 08/31/2008 10:17 AM |
|
If you are going to stick frame on top of the ICF basement, you can span the opening with a beam that will sit on top of the wall and hang the floor joist's on it. Think of the way the conventional concrete formers do it, they put the pour in place windows right at the top and then the framers will put the sil plate down and when they run the rim board around they will double up with 2x10 or LVL where ever there is an opening that is load bearing, then hang that section of the floor, that way the load is transfered over to the sides of the window and does not bear on top. You still with me???
Hope that makes some sense!
Paul Stevens |
|
|
|
|
Aaron McKinney
Registered Users
Posts:44
|
| 08/31/2008 3:28 PM |
|
I think I'm still with you.
From what i think you said, a beam strong enough to carry the loads, which you would also be hanging your joists with (if hanging joists) would sit on the top plate. Would you run your top plate through or cut it at the openings? If it was me, I would want at least a 3x and run it across the openings.
Is that what you said? |
|
|
|
|
grantgarcia
Registered Users
Posts:2
|
| 09/01/2008 7:57 AM |
|
Aaron, Paul, Thank you for your responses. Very helpful.
As you described Paul, I am trying to insert small (32") pour in place foundation windows
into the forms and leave them flush with the top of the wall.
So with a double sill plate, and a doulbe or triple LVL over the opening and supported by the
foundation wall on either side, then hang the floor joists off the LVLs i will have created a Beam
This allows me to keep the grade as high as possible and avoid a window well. That will work i believe.
Thanks very much gentlemen. This forum is truly educational.
going out to finish setting the forms!
regards,
grant |
|
|
|
|
James Eggert
Registered Users
Posts:1001
|
| 09/01/2008 9:49 AM |
|
You don't say whether this is a 1 or 2 or more ICF building, however, the addition of a beam at the perimeter will allow the "lintel" to be nothing more than a continuation of the wall and subsequently does nothing more than keep the inside and outside planes intact.
Depending on exactly what you are doing, you may have anywhere from no to multiple plates, however, just adding plates rarely provides you with the proper strength IF the width is excessive.
Once again, where the heck is your tech support from the block mfg?? This is another of those details which should have been determined before the block even hit the site!! It's one thing to have a problem with say one window, but to detail on the fly the complete envelope is lack of planning, and you need someone to help you with this!
As good as the knowledge base of many here, we don't know anything about your building...size, tributary loading, wind, seismic, etc....so any "answer" you get is valued at what you paid for it! I urge a slow approach to this so everything works out safely! |
|
Take Care
Jim
Design/Build/Consulting
"Not So Big" Design Proponent |
|
|
grantgarcia
Registered Users
Posts:2
|
| 09/01/2008 10:21 AM |
|
James, Thank you for your cautionary approach.
this is a 18 x 30 addition off the back of a raised ranch in Central New England.
Block Mfr would have been more involved if i asked for this service.
It is understood that this forum is not "official" , rather source of best practice input.
As homeowner/contractor i bear ultimate responsibility to make sure its safe and code worthy.
The building plan has been engineered and stamped by independent engineer, this is one last detail we are adding
as homeowners, trying to add cross ventilation by installing two 32" wide x 20" high pour in place windows on one 18' wall.
Wanting to keep the windows as high as possible in the wall, i want to eliminate the "typical" 8" reinforced lintel.
thus the question.
So the answers i received indicate to me that mounting the window flush with top of foundation is not unusual practice
and as long as xtra heavy duty "beam"/ joist framing is installed above these two small openings in the top of the foundation wall, to support the floor and SIP walls and roof, we should meet code. Building Inspector will no doubt be interested in how we do this!
Hope i dont sound like a maverick- homeowner who is a danger to myself! I do have construction background and son is a
Licensed contractor who scrutinizes his dad's designs freely!
appreciatively
grant
|
|
|
|
|
Aaron McKinney
Registered Users
Posts:44
|
| 09/01/2008 12:50 PM |
|
| Let us know how it turns out. |
|
|
|
|
Chris Johnson
Registered Users
Posts:341
|
| 09/01/2008 1:22 PM |
|
Tract home residential we would actually have the window right up into the floor framing with the top of window at the underside of the subfloor, this would require a header to be installed into the wall framing right above the first floor bottom plate.
Not really a great idea when finishing a basement, actually kinda hoaky looking but if the space is needed you do it. |
|
Chris Johnson - Pro ICF
Napa, CA
Come for the wine, Stay for the ICF work |
|
|
MDiver
Registered Users
Posts:28
|
| 09/03/2008 11:37 PM |
|
| I get comments about window wells all the time, I think you should stop and consider what a 20" tall window will look like right below the ceiling inside. Even if you had an 8" lintel over a 20" tall window, the bottom of the window is still only 28" from the ceiling. Allowing for a concrete floor slab the bottom of the window is still 6'-4" from the floor assuming you are pouring a 9'-0" wall. With the bottom of the window at 6'-4" it would be difficult to see a properly constructed window well, as you would already be looking skward just to see out the window. Just my $0.02 |
|
|
|
|
James Eggert
Registered Users
Posts:1001
|
| 09/07/2008 11:49 AM |
|
32" is not very wide, and as noted, the addition of the framing box(LVL) at the end of joists also helps.
It appears you are using ICFs just for the foundation, so holding the window at the top is a typical foundation hopper detail.
By the way, many times the mfg lintel details are based on additional pours being added. So the 8"h detail may be for that type of situation. I haven't read your details, so this is just a general comment. |
|
Take Care
Jim
Design/Build/Consulting
"Not So Big" Design Proponent |
|
|
|
| You are not authorized to post a reply. |
|
|
|
ActiveForums 3.6
|
Professionals Serving
Your Location:
GBT Project Albums:
|