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Steve Andrews
Registered Users
Posts:334
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| 07/17/2000 3:02 PM |
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The following comments were sent in a personal e-mail to me from the National Association of Homebuilders Research Center. Manufacturers and SIP builders are invited to comment.
"We are not proponents or opponents of SIPs panelized construction for housing. Home builders have used them at PATH Field Evaluation and Demonstration Sites, and we used SIPs in construction at our Research Park in Maryland.
"There are several barriers or obstacles to the use of SIPs panels for residential wall or roof construction that we have observed or that have been reported to us, including the following:
1. Higher costs than conventional construction.
2. Flexibility in floor plans and opening locations.
3. Integrating and cost of installing wiring in panels.
4. Termite and other boring insect infestation.
5. Creep and deflection of roof panels.
6. Moisture effects, condensation,and deterioration of roofing products applied to SIPs roof panels.
7. Buyer's perception of lack of structural integrity.
8. Complexity, cost, and weather sealing of connections and joints.
"Of course, these issues are not new to you or the manufacturers, as is apparent from the discussions on your web site. However, whether real or perceived, they will remain as obstacles to acceptance of SIPs by home builders, unless resolved and the systems remain cost effective. Under the PATH program, we must be assured that the housing construction is affordable, and also meets the other PATH goals."
The above list will strike you as a bit of a littany. Remember, they are listing only what they perceive as barriers here; they aren't also listing the benefits of SIPS--superior energy efficiency, product strength, etc.--which account for the fact that SIPS are used in notable PATH projects around the country.
A number of NAHB-RC's above concerns--termites, wiring, costs, design constraints, etc.--are addressed within the on-line construction manual. It is instructive to note that, since the lumber price spike in 1992 and subsequent volatility of lumber prices, NAHB-RC has extensively studied the merits of three "alternative building systems." Those systems are SIPs, insulated concrete forming systems (ICFs) and steel framing. Of the three, in my experience both SIPs and ICFs provide superior energy performance and strength advantages; by comparison, the steel framing I've field-tested and observed is less energy-efficient than conventional wood framing.
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Thermocore
Registered Users
Posts:2
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| 07/21/2000 11:28 AM |
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The above concerns expressed by the NAHB are do have marrit. The ideal panel would have boxes and conduit in the panel in any conffiguration thet homeowner wanted, would have all the windows pre bucked before they arrive and be completely custom so that any size or shape could be produced at the same price. You would also want a panel that does not produce scrap. We have solved all of these problems with our panel system. Our panels come standard with 3/4" real conduit and real electrical boxes for phone, cable, computer, alarms configgured any way the homeowner wants and at no addtional cost. We also pre-coffigure our panels with door and window oppenings in place and prebucked. We can also mold any header or nailer or post directly into our panel so that engineering and point load issues are handled in the plant. As far as bugs this is not unique to panel homes and with the proper prevention there should not be a problem. It must be noted that most panel homes in the past were on Timber Frames and these homes were for the most part being built in the woods. ANY home would have increase potential for insects. I think you will find that the rate of bugs in a panel home is actualy less than a stick built according to the people who live in our homes. WHY lack of moisture which leads me to your other issue. Builders and homeowners do not realize how much moisture is proc duced INSIDE the house. Showers cooking breathing produce large amounts of moisture. Most of todays homes are ineffiencent enough to rid the moisture. Panel homes are so tight that you MUST help the house to breath. The process is simple and can be handled with an air to air exchanger. In Minnisota code now warrents that the house be very air tight and this has led to problems because builders do not know how to handle inside moisture build up. Proper plannig can eliminate all these problems and an air to air exchanger is a SMART investment for any home. Creep is more a problem when panel manufacturers push panels to there limits. ANYTHING even steel is pron to sage over time. Agian proper design will control this problem I would much rather add a beam and sleep at night than tax the limits of our system. The fact is find one study or engineer who would question the structural properties of panels. You can not judge with your eye.( if we did none of us would cross a bridge or fly in a plane) The engineering facts are there and they are concrete. I would like to close by saying that one of the biggest mistakes one can make is underestimating the intellagence of there customers. I welcome all to call me personaly to talk about any of these issues Pat 877 550-8973
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Martin Coult
Registered Users
Posts:10
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| 07/21/2000 12:29 PM |
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Well Pat you might not be able to spell but you sure get the point across well. Great words!
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Thermocore
Registered Users
Posts:2
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| 07/21/2000 12:29 PM |
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PS Yes i am a poor speller. I fogot the holey grail of panels. COST I would like to have the NAHB produce the study that shows panel homes cost more to own. Panels lower the cost of home ownership guarenteed. Panels cost no more than upgrades to hard wood floors or marble. The difference is that those products only pay for themselves if someone is willing to buy them down the road. That is not an investment that is gambling. Panels will pay for themselves the day you close untill the day you move. That is an investment and this fall as energy rate go up it is a great investment. Investments are not costs, they are returns. Any one can build cheap but to build better nad smarter and faster and to improve productivity I challange builders to find a product that can impact todays building as much as panels. Banks now reconize the energy savings panels offer as real and count it as INCOME. This actually helps more people afford a home. COST show me the money.
Pat
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Al Cobb
Registered Users
Posts:3
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| 07/21/2000 9:07 PM |
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Hey Pat,
Take a deep breath!
Your points are right on target. However I think we should direct them directly to the burecrats at PATH. As for perception, I would hope an orginazation like PATH would do their utmost to remove the negative perceptions that may or may not exist, and promote a product that obviously is in the best interest of homebuyers as well as in line with the "goals of PATH"
My real question is; What are they proponents of?
Confused in WV,
Al Cobb
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R_Control Tech. Director
Registered Users
Posts:1
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| 07/24/2000 1:31 PM |
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"There are several barriers or obstacles to the use of SIPs panels for residential wall or roof construction that we have observed or that have been reported to us, including the following:
4. Termite and other boring insect infestation.
The protection of SIPs from potential Termite and boring insect damage is quite simple and straightforward. A number of manufacturers across the country use a type of EPS (expanded polystyrene) foam which has been treated with a EPA registered pesticide for protection against termites and carpenter ants. In addition to a 'treated' EPS, OSB (oriented strand board) is also available with an integral EPA registered pesticide. Thus, a fully treated SIP is commercially available to address this concern.
As with all structures, a SIP home should be under contract with a reputable pest control operator.
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