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Forums > Green Building Technologies > Structural Insulated Panels (SIPs) > Subject: Magnesium Oxide Board - is it better than OSB

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WayneZhangUser is Offline
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07/17/2009 8:34 PM  
I read the discussion of the mgo board with patient. I am relatively new to mgo board.
 
The major confusion is mgo board and fibre reinforced mgo board.
 
mgo base construction in China started with firebricks/bricks for furnaces in early 19 centry and it has been the dominate material since.
The bricks are burned in a way to make it very strong and block the heat from furnace.
 
With the development of the technology, some of the mgo bricks are made to be thin and about 1/2" thick and gradually leaded into the mgo board.
 
As mgo boards, at size about 4'x8', with massive production, without the traditional "baking" process, or too expensive to do so, are relataively strong and non-combustible per ASTM E 136, but have two major weakness, they are too brittle and doesn't resistant to water. 

As stated by David Mills, when they get wet the Magnesium Chloride can leach out of them which degrades the integrity of the cement.  Not to mention that magnesium chloride salts are very corrosive to metal that comes in contact with the salt. In AC 386, the last para, 5.4 it shall not be used in wet areas described in IBC Section 2502 and shall not be used in showers.

Back to mgo board, to increase the strength of traditional mgo boards, fiber reinforced mgo based sheet were developed.  And we finally have an  AC 386. But AC 386 did not specify what kind of fiber shall be used. And AC 386, failed to set up a industrial stardard other than set up the criteria based on one big company who has a deep pocket, similar to the way as AC 376. (Maybe because AC is not an industry association, but it should set up a AC creteria based on an industry standard not a single product from a company. The industry needs to set a standard for fiber reinforced mgo board.

If any organic fiber, wood, cellulose fibre(pulp) are added to make them structural applicable, ( that is to replace plywood, OSB), the amount of organic fibre added is going to make the penal strong but it will fail ASTM E 136. A number of tests conducted on samples of fibre reinforced mgo board failed ASTM E 136 while still claimed to be non-combustible. Lots fibre reinforce mgo board contains about 20% wood or celluse or fibreglass. This is why we read conflicts of properties of mgo boards.

Most of the mgo board manufactories in China are now fiber cement boards (use celluse fibres) manufacturers as well as they adapted to relatively new product similar to hardie panels.

But neither mgo boards nor fiber cement boards are intended for structural applications-more for sidding or partitioning.

Only CEMENT BONDED PARTICLE BOARD, the last member of the particle board familty, widely used in Europe in the past 80 years, are structural boards to replace OSB and plywood, which is also inflammable, moisture resistant, termite and molds resistant. In UK, CBPB is widely used for almost all buildings.

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09/18/2009 10:34 AM  
I'm having a little trouble following your post, so let me ask a couple of questions. First, if you are using the MGO product that is currently being manufactured and imported to the US, is there a serious water/metal corrosion problem. I'm looking at using a system that combines steel frame with eps insulation. If I were to use MGO board with that product is there a serious risk that the MGO board is going to corrode the steel? The board would be attached with screws - would it corrode the screws? Would the answer be different in an interior application vs. and exterior application? The manufacturers claim that the board is effectively inert and water resistant. What kind of conditions would cause the magnesium chloride to begin to leach? Finally, is MGO board even cost competitive with other sheathing materials? Your thoughts would be appreciated.
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09/21/2009 6:02 PM  

I am not sure about the metal corrosion. The major cause of the mgcl2 leach is moisture.

Depends on the application you intend, you need to find a way to avoild the moisture penetration. Or in other word, keep the moisture balanced all the time.

Pure mgo board is a very good as a fire block/brick.

For the fibre reinforced mgo board, there are many ways to do it and it all depends on each factory.

For your application, you may consider to use cement bonded particle board, which is almost identical from factories meeting the EU standard.

Available brands in US are Armoroc, Versaroc and Viroc.

The cost is very close to those imported panels.



 

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10/24/2009 4:53 PM  
I am a product development engineer and have worked with MgO refractories for 35 years. The MgO board being discussed is probably not magnesium oxide, but some other material such as magnesium carbonate or hydrate.

MgO does not exist in nature as it is unstable. MgO is formed by burning magnesium carbonate (magnesite) at high temperature. In contact with water or water vapor it converts to Mg(OH)2, magnesium hydroxide, which is stable. A large volume expansion occurs during hydration and the MgO body bursts into small pieces. 

Believe me, a building product based on MgO would not last in contact with water or high humidity.

PTS
LiviuUser is Offline
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11/03/2009 5:38 PM  
MgO board is composed from magnesium oxide, magnesium chloride and fibrous reinforcement for strenght.
LiviuUser is Offline
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11/03/2009 6:02 PM  
Why would someone use mixed skins SIP's? People in this industry are very hard to change and go with a new and better product. Cement skin ( protec panels) or MgO skin ( mag wall, Canada). Both products ofer much better quality product than any other OSB SIP panel on the market. Both sides are  READY for finish the next day, no drywall, no vapor barier, no siding, etc.
Yes I know that nobody wants this on the market because what are they going to do with the lumber industry? and with the drywall? and no Tyvek ???
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11/03/2009 6:13 PM  
Posted By Liviu on 11/03/2009 6:02 PM

Yes I know that nobody wants this on the market because what are they going to do with the lumber industry?


Must be same conspiracy that kept the 200 mpg carburetor off the market?

Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips dot com
1-877-321-SIPS
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11/03/2009 6:29 PM  
I am not sure about that but I can tell you that the fire test for MgO it is $10500.00. Is this encouraging?
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11/03/2009 6:35 PM  
Posted By Liviu on 11/03/2009 6:29 PM
I am not sure about that but I can tell you that the fire test for MgO it is $10500.00. Is this encouraging?

Yes , I feel much better

Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips dot com
1-877-321-SIPS
WayneZhangUser is Offline
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11/03/2009 8:09 PM  

I agree with you PTS. It should be mainly Mg(OH)2.

It is originally talking about Mg concrete blocks people used to build the great wall,

It is very much diiferent now.

As far as the skin is concerned, there are definite advantages using cement based structural panels.  Please pay attention to the word "structural".

People could use cement bonded particle board or fiber cement board.



 

 

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