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kevinbourland
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| 12/13/2008 10:40 AM |
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Chris,
Do you think that DUROCK either glued and screwed, or on furring strips would help on the exterior skins, or just a waste of cost and time. Durock is manageable due to the smaller size. |
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Kevin |
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cmkavala
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| 12/13/2008 10:44 AM |
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Posted By kevinbourland on 12/13/2008 10:40 AM
Chris,
Do you think that DUROCK either glued and screwed, or on furring strips would help on the exterior skins, or just a waste of cost and time. Durock is manageable due to the smaller size. Kevin;
what is the final finish you are trying to obtain?
You already have vinyl siding?
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Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips dot com
1-877-321-SIPS |
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kevinbourland
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| 12/13/2008 3:01 PM |
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Yes, the front is partial Nova Brik, siding. The North wall, the noisest has no windows, and is currently vinyl.
I was thinking of removing vinyl, installing DUROCK, with vinyl over Durock.
what do ya think?
Also, on inside wall, should the new sheetrock panels be caulked at corners or taped as standard practices?
My walls are sure performing well. I start the fire at 4:00 P.M. put the last log on around 10:00 P.M. House is up around 80 degrees. Come home after work, and start all over.
I plan to do a blow test in the Spring.
Thanks.
Kevin |
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Kevin |
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cmkavala
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| 12/13/2008 3:37 PM |
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I was thinking of removing vinyl, installing DUROCK, with vinyl over Durock.
Kevin;
Durock won't offer much in noise control, If it was my house I would install 1/2" RC-1 channel furring , hush board
and then the vinyl siding |
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Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips dot com
1-877-321-SIPS |
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want to build
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Posts:89
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| 12/14/2008 4:48 PM |
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| Green glue:
http://www.soundisolationcompany.com/sound-solutions/walls/green-glue/?gclid=CNrvoo3wyZQCFQOuFQodzCXKkQ#
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Dick Mills
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Posts:159
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| 12/14/2008 5:06 PM |
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| Does GreenGlue or QuietGlue have any STC numbers of sound dampening graphs for gluing dry wall directly to OSB or Steel SIPs skins? |
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hector8762
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Posts:23
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| 12/16/2008 3:35 PM |
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Durock is heavy stuff, and adding mass WILL help with sound attenuation. I think the rule is something like 6 dB for every 2x the wall mass. So, if your wall weighs 3 lb per square foot, and you add 3 lb per square foot of Durock, you'll gain 6 dB. If you want another 6 dB, it'll take 6 more lb/sqft.
If you Google on Green Glue, you'll find several websites with data.
If you search for tgorle's thread on this site, I think you'll find a guy who ran numbers for drywall/green glue/OSB SIP. |
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cmkavala
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| 12/16/2008 3:48 PM |
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Posted By hector8762 on 12/16/2008 3:35 PM
Durock is heavy stuff, and adding mass WILL help with sound attenuation. I think the rule is something like 6 dB for every 2x the wall mass. Hector;
not necessarily true, hush board is light weight & soft and has better sound control than durock
also wood studs are heavier and denser than steel studs and transmit more sound
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Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips dot com
1-877-321-SIPS |
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hector8762
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| 12/16/2008 8:19 PM |
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Chris,
I didn't say that mass was the ONLY factor. Mass is just one variable in a complex problem.
I certainly agree with you that there are other avenues for sound control beyond adding mass. The decoupling methods you've mentioned - steel studs and hat channels - work especially well at higher frequencies. Hush board, Homasote, batt insulation all have their uses too. Seal/decouple/damp are all good strategies.
But mass is definitely your friend too, if your shooting for a quiet home. All else being equal, doubling the mass of your wall will increase the sound attenuation by about 6 dB. Even more importantly, adding mass is one of the few things you can do to solve low-frequency problems.
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Dick Mills
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Posts:159
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| 12/16/2008 9:56 PM |
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I contacted GreenGlue to see if they had research for drywall glued directly to OSB or Steel SIPs, and this is what he said:
Mr. Mills,
We have done a small number of tests with OSB skinned SIPs. What the tests
showed was that adding a layer of drywall helped a fair amount. Adding a
layer of Green Glue did not have much effect. 1-2 STC points is all.
Brent Ravnaas
Direct 701-540-5045
fax 701-232-1332
brent@greengluecompany.com
www.greengluecompany.com
But, they obviously haven't done a lot of research, so a furred out drywall/greenglue/drywall arrangement might have similar results as are achieved with greenglue in stick construction. |
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MarkosWoodWorking
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Posts:36
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| 12/21/2008 2:21 PM |
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| Is anybody aware of any noticeable difference in sound transmission between polystyrene and polyurethane? |
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Matthew Sokalski
Markos WoodWorking,
Akasu Contracting and Consulting (Attr.) |
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TedWhite
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Posts:23
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| 12/24/2008 10:41 AM |
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You will not see significant damping using any damping material when applied directly to the SIP panel. There is too large a differential between the SIP panel and the applied drywall. I was involved with that lab testing.
Similarly, the use of Homasote, sound board, hush board (all the same performance) is very ineffective. I can't overstate that point.
Unfortunately as high performance as a SIP panel is, they are terrible with sound isolation. Very conductive insulation, no flex in the panels, low mass, etc.
BTW, steel studs are better performers in standard construction compared to wood. Why? A steel wall is more flexible.
The only way to significantly reduce sound with a SIP panel is to intruduce a new framed wall with an air cavity depth of at least 2.5". The framing cannot touch the SIP panel. Install standard R11 fiberglass. Then single or double drywall with or without damping material.
I wish there was a better way, but after a lot of time testing in a certified lab, ther determination was that there isn't a simple fix for the inherant sound problems of SIP technology |
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Ted |
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cmkavala
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| 12/24/2008 11:42 AM |
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Our steel SIPs with 1-1/2" steel hi-hat furring has been very effective for sound control, they are by no means sound proof but I would say they are as good or better than conventional framing.
Besides the thermal efficiency, the advantages of steel SIPs is they are termite, mold & rot resistant. Easier to install than OSB and do not require a crane. |
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Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips dot com
1-877-321-SIPS |
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TedWhite
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| 12/24/2008 12:11 PM |
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Hi Chris,
Do you have any data on that? How is that panel assembled? In other words, you take a is the Hat Channel attached to the SIP, then drywalled? |
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Ted |
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MarkosWoodWorking
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Posts:36
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| 12/24/2008 12:23 PM |
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| Would 1X4 furring strips, say 12" O.C. over the exterior of the panel make any significant sound reduction? Or alternatively, do they make a heavy duty hi-hat-type furring strip that could be used for heavier siding? |
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Matthew Sokalski
Markos WoodWorking,
Akasu Contracting and Consulting (Attr.) |
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TedWhite
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Posts:23
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| 12/24/2008 12:26 PM |
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| The problem is the small air cavity created with a 1x4. This will help in a small frequency range, but make things much worse in other (lower) frequencies. It's a bad trade, I'm afraid. The best choice is to decouple from the SIP altogether with a separate wall. It's too bad, because the SIP system is really fabulous in other respects |
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Ted |
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cmkavala
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| 12/24/2008 12:34 PM |
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Posted By TedWhite on 12/24/2008 12:11 PM
Hi Chris,
Do you have any data on that? How is that panel assembled? In other words, you take a is the Hat Channel attached to the SIP, then drywalled?
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Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips dot com
1-877-321-SIPS |
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TedWhite
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| 12/24/2008 12:38 PM |
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Thanks for that Chris,
I'm not thinking this will improve the overall system. This has been studied extensively by the NRC labs in Canada. Finest lab in North America. You get some improbement in the higher frequencies, but much worse in lower. That's just the unfortunate physics of it. |
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Ted |
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cmkavala
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| 12/24/2008 12:40 PM |
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Posted By MarkosWoodWorking on 12/24/2008 12:23 PM
Would 1X4 furring strips, say 12" O.C. over the exterior of the panel make any significant sound reduction? Or alternatively, do they make a heavy duty hi-hat-type furring strip that could be used for heavier siding? Markos;
they do make a heavier hi-hat, but I can't imagine what you would be hanging that woud be that heavy? 25 ga. is plenty good for all sidings we apply.
The idea is to minimize furring contact to minimize sound transmision, a 1 x 4 is not a good choice especially @ 12" oc.
the more surface seperation the less sounf transmission
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Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips dot com
1-877-321-SIPS |
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MarkosWoodWorking
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Posts:36
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| 12/24/2008 12:42 PM |
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| Should just do it the same way as I did in my workshop to reduce noise into the house...staple egg cartons all over the walls and ceiling. Might not look overly attractive, but as long as you give it a good coat of paint, who's going to complain? =P |
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Matthew Sokalski
Markos WoodWorking,
Akasu Contracting and Consulting (Attr.) |
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