|
|
You are not authorized to post a reply.
|
 Prev Next
|
| Author |
Messages |
|
|
|
Gsfrey
Registered Users
Posts:60
 |
| 03/01/2008 6:26 PM |
|
SIP's will be a viable, cost effective alternative when there is enough of a supply to drive down the price. A decrease in the price will naturally move the demand curve into a more favorable place along the curve. Before we started making our own we were paying 30% mark-up and we were getting a good rate. I bought into the high start up costs, until I did the math and saw and incredibly low ROI, time wise anyway.
If you could build your own, cover your costs and make 10% on the SIP's would that be reason enough to make a move? Of course not. You would have to see an increase in your home building to make it work. Folks in Colorado who use 10 1/2" roofs for insulation should be building these things like so many cups of Starbucks coffee. We in the desert have finally found out that we can compete head to head, both residential and commerical. Our first commercial porject will begin shourtly using 4' x 20' x 6 1/2" panels and we were 20% cheaper than concrete tilt up. The thing is the big manufacturers are protecting the price, happy with their production schedule and not looking to get into a price battle.
I think things like this thread are the key. I am smarter for having found this site. If we began to band together and build into a coop of sorts, shared costs and what not could you imagine getting SIP's for 30% cheaper and what the end result would look like. I don't mean to go Norma Rae her, but that is what the future has to look like to get the SIP's into a real compeitive position against stick, and concrete. It is by far a better product. Imagine being able to buy a Mercedes for the price of a pinto station wagon. That would have seemed far fetched 10 years ago, but we can do it today.
Once SIP's get price point competitive those tract home builders and buyers will come running. We jsut need to get the product out there. Anyone for a trial plant in the Northern New Mexico are to service N. Mexico and Colorado and W. Texas. Small appliance stores buy into coop's all the time to get the price point the big box house already have.
Maybe everybody has already tried this. I doubt it. But man could you imagine carving up the country and making SIP's the most used technology in home building. Well off to SAM's. I wonder where all my great ideas come from?
Greg Freyermuth
915-256-7563, Cell
gregfreyermuth@elp.rr.com, E-Mail
|
|
Greg Freyermuth
915-256-7563, Phone
GregFreyermuth@elp.rr.com, E-Mail |
|
|
Marc&Kem
Registered Users
Posts:28
|
| 03/03/2008 5:43 PM |
|
This on the fence cost comparison is probably where it will stay. As long as it costs a little more for SIP's the unique, green, long term countermeasure guy will be the outside the box guy. I kinda like being that guy. Because inside I know its "good".
If SIP's become the standard (which they should) it would have an incredible impact on our dependancy for fuel in this great country of ours. When I got out of the service in 1980, I was geared up to be the green guy of the future. It was the politics that discouraged me from pursueing the passion of my carreer. This is my way of contributing in my litlle way of educating others through "our green" experiences.
There should be more incentives to get green and support the SIP industry. Then guys like us can take it to the next level. Save some trees, save some fuel, save some money. You guys do a lot more for this world by your involvement than you realize. Spread the word and educate each other through real world knowlege.
$6 a sq ft..... I'm gonna try that and compare it to the quote method Thermocore gave me. I'll let you know... |
|
|
|
|
Gsfrey
Registered Users
Posts:60
|
| 03/03/2008 6:30 PM |
|
Just one more word of advice; get a few quotes on your panels as well. I was amazed as to the difference in pricing around the country. In some instances the differences were 2 & 3 times the good prices that are out there.
It should not cost any more to build a SIP's house. I refused to buy MAC computers until I did some comparison shoping. I, with the help of a MAC buddy, went to the Dell site, built a computer to my specs, and then looked at a comparable MAC product. I now use MAC exclusively. It was not more expensive. I could have bought a cheaper clone, but one with the power of the MAC at that point the MAC was cheaper.
SIP's are the same way. When compared, "apples to apples", no pun intended, the SIP's home is cheaper to build and cheaper to buy.
Thanks,
Greg
|
|
Greg Freyermuth
915-256-7563, Phone
GregFreyermuth@elp.rr.com, E-Mail |
|
|
Marc&Kem
Registered Users
Posts:28
|
| 03/03/2008 6:51 PM |
|
Thanks for the reassurrance Greg.
I have a MS PC. I know Macs are more powerful especially with their true single operating system that utilizes system memory more efficient. It wasn't until I tried one for CAD that I really saw the difference. But..... I don't have enough knowlege of their capatibility issues (especially which other hardware).
Kinda like SIPS. Both stick and SIP's do the same basic job but which is the public more comfortable with. The unknowns like moisture barrier and long term use and support for a huge investment are road blocks. |
|
|
|
|
k_radanovich
Registered Users
Posts:8
|
| 03/03/2008 9:53 PM |
|
Hey Mark, There is a great Sips vs. Stick cost comparison article in the Nov. 07 Fine Home building. You could probably view it at their website.
Kevin
GrennWalls-US |
|
|
|
|
Paulcf
Registered Users
Posts:17
|
| 03/03/2008 11:18 PM |
|
Kevin, I can't find the article...can you, if you have it, email it to me please? I'm always on the lookout for articles comparing SIPs to stick build.
Thanks very much. |
|
|
|
|
Gsfrey
Registered Users
Posts:60
|
| 03/04/2008 1:45 PM |
|
Looking back through my HB collection, July '07 was the only article I saw regarding SIP's. Might be others, but it is in that one for sure. Page 60 does a very unflattering cost comparison and ROI. Cannot imagine getting paid that kind of money. The magazine talked about a 1000 sq.ft. home's SIP's package costing $13.5k. Anyway, that's the article I found...
Greg |
|
Greg Freyermuth
915-256-7563, Phone
GregFreyermuth@elp.rr.com, E-Mail |
|
|
Marc&Kem
Registered Users
Posts:28
|
| 03/07/2008 3:48 AM |
|
Greg,
Was there a difference in the EPS Vs the PU panels? Do you have some quotes you can share? I was going with Urathane because of the door and window jams but from what I read, you still have to extend them.
What did you decide to do and who did you go with?
Thanks,
Marc |
|
|
|
|
Gsfrey
Registered Users
Posts:60
|
| 03/07/2008 11:35 AM |
|
Marc,
The trade off is size against price. If you go with PU you will get a thinner panel providing a comparable R-Value, but you will pay a higher price. In th end, I think it comes down to a choice as to the look you are going for. Out here, in El Paso, if you only used 6 1/2" panels you never want for any more insulation. So if you are looking for something Southwestern and you want the thicker adobe looking structure you can certainly get it with the EPS for a much better price. You embed the doors and windows into 10"-12" thick walls and the look is appropriate. With this we have a tight, well insulated and clean home. The deserts and high winds are an issue as far as keeping your home and occupants clean and healthy.
Where I grew up in the south the look was different. I do not remember any 12" adobe walls in Georgia. So here is my consul to you. Decide on the required R-Value and air conditioning systems to maintain an efficient, clean home and then go with the panels that suits that best. Remember, form follows function.
We build with EPS, we sell EPS and I have no experience with PU panels. I do not see the need for them personally, but I am biased at best, ignorant at worst. I think EPS are easier to build with, but those with expensive PU experience might have an intelligent arguement. Think about weight, size and price. Save on the panels, invest in the systems.
Good luck and let me know if you would like any pricing information so you can competitively shop. I have been told that there are some folks out there who will really try to take you out to the cleaners on price.
E-mail me if you want any more infomation... |
|
Greg Freyermuth
915-256-7563, Phone
GregFreyermuth@elp.rr.com, E-Mail |
|
|
KirkleyBurrows
Registered Users
Posts:2
|
| 06/16/2008 11:14 PM |
|
| Good evening, would you please send me the spreadsheet for cost comparison. My email address is kirkleyburrows@hotmail.com, thank you. |
|
|
|
|
Donaldson
Registered Users
Posts:88
|
| 06/17/2008 4:29 PM |
|
Hi
After living in my sip home for three years now, I am convinced that building with sips is less expesive than stick for sure and block. ICF's forget about it, no comparison cost wise. I know that my house is strong as it went through four hurricanes in '04 when the only thing up was the shell, no windows and doors, just holes so think what the up lift was, yet no damage. I work for an organization that just built a duplex in our retirement center out of sips. Out of the 35 retirement unites that are built with stick all but one has been tented at least once, some twice and two or three have been tented three times. "Tented" is a Florida term relating to killing termites in the structure. The unites that were built in the 80's have had to have the exterior siding replaced. The 1000 Sq. ft unites average $120 per month during the summer months with the AC going at good clip. Are Sips less expensive, you better believe they are. Not cheaper but less expensive, yet higher quality!
there is no real way to compare sips to anything but sips. they are just a different animal than stick or block. You can compare the advantages of steel sips to OSB or vise verses, but compare sip to stick there is no comparison!!!!! |
|
|
|
|
|
| You are not authorized to post a reply. |
|
|
|
ActiveForums 3.6
|
Search GBT's Professional Directory:
Professionals Serving
Your Location:
GBT Project Albums:
|