tmsu
Registered Users
Posts:43
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| 04/29/2008 12:59 PM |
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I finished constructing my SIP home last year. We have been in since June 23rd. I would recommend (and have) to anyone asking that SIPs was a great way to go. Not too sure about how much energy costs I am really saving (with the exception of the tax right-offs!). Anyway, one area that I am disappointed on is the "quietness" (if that is a word) of the product. It seems that there is a bit of a hollow sound from outside to inside. Meaning it doesn't seem very quiet (wind blowing, people talking, etc.). I kind of thought it would be very quiet but if you take a panel and knock on it, you hear the hollowness. Definitely not like a concrete structure.
Anyway, does anyone else concur with this? I kept trying to think what I did "wrong" in the construction to allow this but couldn't come up with anything. |
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greenownerbuilder
Registered Users
Posts:8
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| 05/02/2008 9:44 AM |
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I had always thought the same thing. I have never sold SIP's packages before because of just that. They say it should be less quiet, but it's wood to foam core to wood. Should be quieter than stick built and decrease drafts, but like you said, it's not concrete. If you hear wind, make sure you're not getting a draft anywhere, then seal it.
I don't think you did anything wrong, that's just the product. I'm sure it's a solid system, but I prefer to educate people about ICF's. If someone is bent on building with SIP's, I'll still help them, but I prefer ICF. Two completely different animals, I know. |
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Build Your Own ICF Home! 100% Financing. No out of pocket payments, 12 months to build.
http://www.DIYownerbuilder.com |
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cmkavala
Registered Users
Posts:807
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| 05/02/2008 1:55 PM |
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tmsu;
My customers have the exact opposite experience and frequently comment on how quiet their homes are
What is your exterior finish? |
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Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips.com
1-877-321-SIPS |
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EastMark
Registered Users
Posts:22
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| 05/02/2008 2:04 PM |
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I am doing SIPS TF house this summer. Wondered...Did you use EPS or polyiso ? How thick ? And as asked...what siding ?
Hadnt heard that before.
Mark |
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cmkavala
Registered Users
Posts:807
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| 05/02/2008 2:16 PM |
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EastMark;
Not sure who you were addressing?
but we use 4" or 6" steel skinned /EPS core with 1-1/2" hit-hat furring @ 24" oc for the wire chase and drywall attachment.
I believe that the 1-1/2" air space is key to providing a quieter wall system |
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Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips.com
1-877-321-SIPS |
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tmsu
Registered Users
Posts:43
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| 05/02/2008 4:43 PM |
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My finish outside is 5' foot of stone on 2 sides and then vinyl the rest of the way around. It is not a broken seal wind sound (like a barely cracked window) or anything. The envelope is tight. I did not skimp on taping and foaming seems. If I read anything prior to putting this together (here and other forums) it was make sure to seal the envelope. By the way, I used EPS SIPs. 6.5" walls, 8.5" roof panels. This is probably me expecting dead silence (like in a concrete building) versus what I hear now. You know, expectations.
I want to state that I am VERY happy with the SIP panel home. I would certainly recommend it and enjoyed working with the materials. My inexperience caused problems that are either avoided altogether by guys who do this for a living or are mitigated to a non-factor. |
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cmkavala
Registered Users
Posts:807
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| 05/02/2008 4:46 PM |
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tmsu;
I think its the vinyl, sound passes thru easier than hardi-Siding or cement stucco |
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Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips.com
1-877-321-SIPS |
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cmkavala
Registered Users
Posts:807
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| 05/02/2008 4:50 PM |
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When hurricane Charlie passed by us ...........looking out our 8 ft. glass door was like watching a storm on a big screen tv with the mute button on.
I have heard similar stories from customers |
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Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips.com
1-877-321-SIPS |
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Terry Hackbart
Registered Users
Posts:14
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| 05/02/2008 4:59 PM |
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I have lived in a sip house for over 12 years and the quietness of the house in high winds (60 to 100 mph) is one of its best features. I am totally sold on sips for their strength, quality of build, quietness, and energy efficiency, but they are not magic. If the design of the house is not oriented for the wind, the noise you hear may be the vinyl clapping on the house and whistling around the seams. You don't state what type of window you used, but your choice of windows could also have alot to do with it. No matter how well you build your house, how you orient it to your environment is critical and will affect the house performance
Terry |
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tmsu
Registered Users
Posts:43
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| 05/02/2008 6:59 PM |
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| Guys (gals?), none of the examples thrown out are what I hear. I used Anderson windows with the Low E. Very good windows. The siding is solid to the house, no problems. The wind isn't the issue. It is the hollowness in the sound of the SIP. The sound of knocking or voices seems to carry through the panel. Not often, not super loud but much different than in the basement. Again, I think my expectations were the deadness you experience in a concrete building. This is obviously not concrete so I think my expectations were not right to begin with. |
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Terry Hackbart
Registered Users
Posts:14
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| 05/03/2008 9:44 AM |
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| Sorry, I was under the impression you meant wind noise. I used ICF's for my basement and sips above grade. You are correct that if you tap or knock on the sips they do transmit that sound through out the system. They are a membrane and and transmit contact noise easily. The ICF's are totally dead in that respect. I love the performance of ICF's, but I absolutely hate pouring concrete, so as soon as I get above grade I switch to SIPs. Much easier to work with and less stressful and costly. I find working with sips to be almost mindlessly easy. I read about all the problems people have with sips and just can't believe it. I guess that is why most of the industry is still building houses the same way for the last 200 years. |
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firefox
Registered Users
Posts:27
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| 05/06/2008 4:27 PM |
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This discussion came up years ago on this forum. The solution is to put an airspace between the osb and the sheet rock. At my local lumber supply store they sell special z shapped metal strips. You nail the narrower flange to the osb and you screw the sheet rock to the other wider flange which has the right surface to catch your screws. So I am afraid if you want to fix the problem, you would have to tear off all the old sheet rock, and replace it with these strips underneath, but then you would have all the windows and doors to deal with. If it were me I would lear to live with the noise, or adopt
teenagers to mask the problem. Mostly this post is for people who haven't built yet, so they know what to do to avoid the problem.
Bruce |
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cmkavala
Registered Users
Posts:807
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| 05/06/2008 4:42 PM |
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Bruce;
Exactly! what I have been telling everyone ....... it is the way we install our wiring on our steel sips panels in stead of chases, it makes wiring easier (no cut-in boxes or fishing wires) and the added benefit of an air gap for sound insulation. we use steel hi-hat furring, "Z" furring or RC-1 channels. It works the same way insulated glass windows help keep out sound transmission.
It is not easy to retrofit but we do all our jobs this way |
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Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips.com
1-877-321-SIPS |
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tmsu
Registered Users
Posts:43
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| 05/06/2008 10:30 PM |
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| Create air space between the sheet rock and the SIP? Um yeah, no thanks. I appreciate your comments and assume that that this would alleviate the problem. But honestly, this is just silly. I respect that cmkavala is very experienced and knows what he/she is talking about. However, adding this additional step of labor and material futher argues against using SIPs. To be truthful, one would use this method when using steel panels because of the ease of using it as chases but this is not necessary with OSB SIPs. I suppose the poster that mentioned using Hardibacker would create a concrete barrier and thus reduce/eliminate the hollowness but to propose adding even more materials and labor to SIPs goes against using them in the first place. |
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cmkavala
Registered Users
Posts:807
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| 05/07/2008 6:37 AM |
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Posted By tmsu on 05/06/2008 10:30 PM
Create air space between the sheet rock and the SIP? Um yeah, no thanks. I appreciate your comments and assume that that this would alleviate the problem. But honestly, this is just silly. I respect that cmkavala is very experienced and knows what he/she is talking about. However, adding this additional step of labor and material futher argues against using SIPs. To be truthful, one would use this method when using steel panels because of the ease of using it as chases but this is not necessary with OSB SIPs. I suppose the poster that mentioned using Hardibacker would create a concrete barrier and thus reduce/eliminate the hollowness but to propose adding even more materials and labor to SIPs goes against using them in the first place. tmsu;
I also have experience with OSB SIPs as well and If I ever used another OSB panel; I would delete the cost of the chases (they are not free) and still use furring strips to beneifit sound control and ease of wiring. Your electrician would love you for this too.
Or you can suffer with the noise if that is no concern to you.
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Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips.com
1-877-321-SIPS |
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richntiff
Registered Users
Posts:28
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| 05/07/2008 11:23 AM |
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| Chris - when doing this with an OSB panel (Steel SIPs are not readily available here in Wisconsin), would you place a vapor retarder (barrier) on top of the OSB, under the furring? I should say - in a heating cliimate - would you do this? |
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slenzen
Registered Users
Posts:163
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| 05/07/2008 3:26 PM |
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| How much more labor/materials does using furring/hi hat/z channel add to a sip project? |
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cmkavala
Registered Users
Posts:807
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| 05/07/2008 3:33 PM |
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Posted By richntiff on 05/07/2008 11:23 AM
Chris - when doing this with an OSB panel (Steel SIPs are not readily available here in Wisconsin), would you place a vapor retarder (barrier) on top of the OSB, under the furring? I should say - in a heating cliimate - would you do this? richntiff;
no, I would not use a vapor barrier
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Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips.com
1-877-321-SIPS |
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cmkavala
Registered Users
Posts:807
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| 05/07/2008 3:35 PM |
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Posted By slenzen on 05/07/2008 3:26 PM
How much more labor/materials does using furring/hi hat/z channel add to a sip project? slenzen;
It is relative to your job size and labor costs, the "Z" furring around here costs .23 cents/lft. A standard size job takes 2 men half a day to fur-out
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Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips.com
1-877-321-SIPS |
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ReadyToRetire
Registered Users
Posts:195
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| 05/07/2008 5:13 PM |
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Chris,
Your earlier posts hadn't mentioned a sound deadening advantage, and I'd dismissed the approach because it should be easy to run the wires without the chases. But one of my goals is noise reduction. . . .
Once the panels are furred out, how much additional time does it take the drywaller to hit the strips (they don't appear to be as regularly spaced as studs would be)?
Does the furring add anything to the taping time, such as to handle floating edges?
How "solid" does the final wall feel as compared to drywall mounted directly to the panels?
Very respectfully,
Larry
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