lisa6801
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| 02/20/2009 6:58 AM |
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I am leaning on SIPS installation for new home in central VA. plan on walls only with timber roof line (12:12 pitch) roof with several angles) will use foam for attic insulation. House is 2300 sq ft 1st floor plus full bsement (part finished). It has (backside) bay windows one on top of each other on each floor (total 4 ea). House to be on vertical slope with walk out basement. Planning on using geothermal. We want to be main GC for house but will use a site super for some areas. As with eveyone I want to stretch my $$ as far as I can. My concerns beside cost include:
1. Moisture with OSB. This will take longer to build since we are doing some ourselves or hiring subs ourselves.
So with that exposure I think I will shoot myself in the foot unless we finish the exterior off soon afterward. I know fiber board can be used instead of OSB for panels but what implictions does that have.
2. Using stucco so I think this will require some preparation with sip wall but not sure if it is anything different than normal stick build. I have used stucco before.
3. I know steel sips provide some more advantages with set up, no crane (I have read) wiring placement and mositure control but is cost worth it.
4. Are other home builders buying direct from factories and paying an experience SIPS GC to put up and nothing more?
5. I know to make sure the Geothermal bids take into consideration the SIP R insulation factors.
6. I have those bay windows and complicated roof line with overhang (like french county house) so that will add to cost (may price me out) but I am also concerned about the fitting of the panels together with the bay windows and external wall lay out. Not a straightline but has indentions, small "bump outs" for the front-Porch, dining room sticks out on one side less than the bedroom on the other side of porch.
7 Anyone have recommendations from SIP comapnies in VA, WVA)and what warrenties to look for.
8. Any lessons learned ? I have plenty of land to work on.
THX ahead
Lisa |
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cmkavala
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| 02/20/2009 7:13 AM |
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Lisa;
you make a great case for steel SIPs ,but you made an assumption that they are more than OSB.
The only way to find out, is to price out, our company ships to Viginia out of Atlanta
We have done "shell only" for many GCs that are not comfortable with that phase of construction |
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Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips dot com
1-877-321-SIPS |
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jmagill
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| 02/20/2009 8:42 AM |
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Lisa
We built withs OSB SIP's. There is really not to much to worry with taking longer to finish the exterior. Just put on the house wrap. As long as the roof is on and you have no snow sitting against the OSB, it should not be a problem.
We have a section of panel that has been sitting leaning up against the building for over 7years in the rain and snow( sitting on dirt). It is in very good shape for the abuse it has been through. |
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cmkavala
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| 02/20/2009 9:17 AM |
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Our experience with OSB has been it will swell after one rain
The photo below shows swelling after an overnight soaking according to the article
http://www.rd.com/19557/article19557.html
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Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips dot com
1-877-321-SIPS |
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jmagill
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| 02/20/2009 9:24 AM |
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If you look at that picture it says " after soaking" not rain.
Yes if it was sitting in a pool of water that might be the case. It most real world situations that does not happen.
OSB is used daily in the construction industry and in all types of weather. The normal precautions taking during building( as with any other material) results in good results and no future problems.
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jmagill
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| 02/20/2009 9:36 AM |
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Lisa
I forgot to mention. We used an inexperienced crew, the factory rep spent the first day with them). We had them do walls and roof( and windows). We finished everything else ourselves. Most SIP companies can recomend a shell crew.
All our soffits and porch roof are exposed OSB on the panels. We painted them and have had no weather problems at all.
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cmkavala
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| 02/20/2009 9:44 AM |
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I have been in the construction industry for 38 years and while building conventionally have never lowered our quality standards by using OSB for exterior sheathing.
We have built several OSB SIPs homes, but as steel SIPs came along it was a "no brainer" to make the switch
The picture below is OSB that sustained water damage in house that did have wrap on it |
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Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips dot com
1-877-321-SIPS |
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cmkavala
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| 02/20/2009 9:47 AM |
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| Our soffits and fascia are prefinished and require no paint at all |
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Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips dot com
1-877-321-SIPS |
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jmagill
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| 02/20/2009 10:02 AM |
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Lisa
If you need any more information on OSB SIPS from someone who has had a great experience with them feel free to PM me. We will be building again soon and will again use OSB SIPs as one of our products. We will again do most of the work ourselves. This will be my third home that I have built.
And to note, I don't have a product to sell. |
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sipschool
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| 02/20/2009 2:21 PM |
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Lisa,
I would like to encourage you to visit the SIPschool's website at www.sipschool.org.
We are the only dedicated training facility in the Structural Insulated Panel industry, offering unbiased education through a variety of classes available at our home base in Shepherdstown, WV, or your location. We offer a variety of classes including our SIPs 201 Owner/Builder, SIPs 202 Three Day Installation Workshop, and four day SIPs 301 Installation for SIP Professionals.
Our approach is to present the facts on all things SIP, regardless of core or skin material. You will not be sitting through a sales pitch; check out "Our Students are Talking" page to hear from some of our past attendees.
We are currently offering a discount for our March and April classes, the next one beginning on Monday March 2 here in Shepherdstown, WV. Please contact us if you have any questions.
Annie
www.sipschool.org
304-876-8494
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cmkavala
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| 02/20/2009 2:52 PM |
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Anyone interested in viewing our next steel sips build, will happen in about 3-4 weeks in Tarpon Springs, FL. a 3300 sq.ft. / 3 stories.
first floor slab on grade with 2nd. & 3rd. floors using dietrich trade ready system.
House will have hip and gable roofs, third story walk out sun deck, stucco finish and steel barrel tile roofing |
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Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips dot com
1-877-321-SIPS |
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Jelly
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| 02/20/2009 5:32 PM |
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Lisa, one note about buying direct from manufacturer - that's not that so easy to do with SIPS. It's virtually impossible to do with steel SIPS. Unfortunately it's not the same as getting lumber from a building supply.
Chris, nice rendering. Are those steel barrel roof tiles expensive? I saw some today at a jobsite and they look better than I thought they would. |
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jmagill
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| 02/20/2009 5:38 PM |
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Posted By Jelly on 02/20/2009 5:32 PM
Lisa, one note about buying direct from manufacturer - that's not that so easy to do with SIPS. It's virtually impossible to do with steel SIPS. Unfortunately it's not the same as getting lumber from a building supply.
Jelly Could you clarify, why you think that.
We bought direct and had no problems. We talked to several manufacturers(OSB SIPS) and could have bought direct from them all. |
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cmkavala
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| 02/20/2009 5:48 PM |
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Posted By Jelly on 02/20/2009 5:32 PM
Chris, nice rendering. Are those steel barrel roof tiles expensive? I saw some today at a jobsite and they look better than I thought they would. Jelly;
we can install them with our own forces for less than a roofer would charge us to install cement barrel tiles.
ultimately a better roof for the owner with a 50 year transferable warranty.
You are lucky to get 20 years out of a cement roof in Florida
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Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips dot com
1-877-321-SIPS |
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GeorgiaTom
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| 02/20/2009 5:54 PM |
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Posted By jmagill on 02/20/2009 5:38 PM
Jelly Could you clarify, why you think that.
We bought direct and had no problems. We talked to several manufacturers(OSB SIPS) and could have bought direct from them all. it could be cause you can't go to the local homer and pick up panels if one gets messed up
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Panelhead
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| 02/20/2009 6:39 PM |
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Posted By cmkavala on 02/20/2009 9:44 AM
I have been in the construction industry for 38 years and while building conventionally have never lowered our quality standards by using OSB for exterior sheathing.
We have built several OSB SIPs homes, but as steel SIPs came along it was a "no brainer" to make the switch
The picture below is OSB that sustained water damage in house that did have wrap on it
The window in that picture is installed wrong! The building paper is going to funnel all the water behind it staight to the shealthing. The paper should have been wraped around the window opening and flashed properly. If I were that home owner I would be very upset with my contractor. I doesn't matter what building system you use if it's installed wrong its crap!
Andy in wisconsin |
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jmagill
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| 02/20/2009 7:19 PM |
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Posted By Panelhead on 02/20/2009 6:39 PM
Posted By cmkavala on 02/20/2009 9:44 AM
I have been in the construction industry for 38 years and while building conventionally have never lowered our quality standards by using OSB for exterior sheathing.
We have built several OSB SIPs homes, but as steel SIPs came along it was a "no brainer" to make the switch
The picture below is OSB that sustained water damage in house that did have wrap on it The window in that picture is installed wrong! The building paper is going to funnel all the water behind it staight to the shealthing. The paper should have been wraped around the window opening and flashed properly. If I were that home owner I would be very upset with my contractor. I doesn't matter what building system you use if it's installed wrong its crap! Andy in wisconsin
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Jelly
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| 02/20/2009 8:54 PM |
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As far as a material is concerned, steel is just better than OSB in almost every aspect. You really can't dispute that. I mean, seriously - water, fire, termites, strength to weight ratio. If someone is singing the praises of steel it doesn't mean they are lying to sell you an inferior product. Why always look for an ulterior motive?
However steel SIPS are not as ubiquitous as OSB. They're not as easy to get as OSB, and they're not as cheap as OSB. It's a shame things are like that, since steel is really superior.
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jmagill
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| 02/21/2009 5:27 AM |
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Every product has it's good and bad.( and a reason why it is a better choice for a certain job)
The problem is the scare tactics that are used by "sellers" to push theirs. Just tell the truth and leave out that kind of talk. Having to wade through the propoganda on this site constantly is a disservice to everyone. |
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cmkavala
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| 02/21/2009 6:29 AM |
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Andy;
I myself cannot determine from that photo whether the window was installed incorrectly or did the the OSB swell to the point of blowing out the frame?
I have personally seen 7/16" OSB swell to an inch thick from an undetected roof leak.
The whole point is...... if and when you get a leak in a house OSB will be affected, by swelling, rot, mold, etc...... galvalume steel will not.
Steel roof panels are considered as secondary water barriers by insurance underwriters and is one of the reasons for lower insurance rates. |
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Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips dot com
1-877-321-SIPS |
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