Questions about GSHP for MI Meditation Hall
Last Post 21 Apr 2008 10:54 AM by tuffluckdriller. 1 Replies.
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Bill RittenbergUser is Offline
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20 Apr 2008 09:14 PM
Thanks for all the expert comments on this board.

We're planning to install a closed loop geothermal heating and cooling system for a new 3500 sq ft meditation hall in mid Michigan.  Our first bid before we knew anything was for a 10 ton system, possibly too big. The heat load was ~ 138,000 BTUs and the cooling load was ~104,00, but the contractor didn't have all the right figures in making the calculation.  Anyway, after much research (confusion and obsessing) we're now somewhat better informed and plan to approach a variety of contractors , including the first one, for new more accurate calculations and more detailed bids.

We have many questions, but I wondered if the board had comments in two areas.

1) We're considering introducing an HRV or ERV intp our system.  The Waterfurnance area rep recommended a RenewAire ERV, saying it's design was unique, much simpler than other ERVs with no problem of condensation and ice buildup.  Does anyone have any comments on the payoffs and problems with using or not using an HRV/ERV, and any experience in particular with the Renewaire ERV?

2)  We read that a vertical loop is more efficient than horizontal, that there's a risk that the soil temperatures for horizontal could change irreversibly over the long term from the operation of the system, and of course the trenching for horizontal would cause much more soil disruption and use more space than vertical loops .  The "gravel" in the surface soil seems to include some sizeable sharp rocks, and that worries us too about choosing horizontal loops.  So we're inclined maybe to choose vertical loops if their affordable, but we don't know if our thinking is sound.

I believe our water table is ~ '28 feet (need to check that).  From our well digging log, the soil composition at different depths were
Clay and gravel                        0-45'
Clay                                          45-90'
Shale                                        90-145'
Sandrock & shale                     145-215'
Shale                                       215-230'
Shale & sandrock                     230-265'
Shale                               265-320'

When I called around, several well diggers suggested the depth of the vetical loops might be between 150 and 200 ft in our soil conditions, and the cost difference between vertical and horizontal might be somewhere between $300 and $800/ton:
 
                                    Vertical/ton                                          Horizontal/ton

#1 (GCD)             $5 to $16/ft                                       ?
#2                      $1,890                   175
#3                      $2,200                   175                     $1,600
#4                      $2,000-1,800           150-200               $1,700 

 #5  
                                   $ 2,000                                    150                                      $1,300

I feel I'm operating very much in the dark on this matter.  Any comments on the desirability of vertical over horizontal, the suggested depth for our vertical loops, and the possible cost difference between vertical and horizontal would all be much appreciated.

Bill



                 

tuffluckdrillerUser is Offline
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21 Apr 2008 10:54 AM
A couple of things...

On the ERV, I've never known of one to not have an issue with condensation/ice buildup. If it is removing heat from air, there will be condensation. The only way not to have condensation is if it re-heats that air via electric or fuel, or that the relative humidity is so low, that there's no water in the air to condense. It's just a principle of heating or cooling air.

With the closed loop, you'd save money by having an EarthLinked DX geothermal system installed. You'd only need 100' drilled loop per ton. This will be lower drilling cost. You'd have a lower installed price for a higher efficient system.

Contact Mike Dilling. He's the sales rep for your area. He'll know what installer to recommend in your area.

Mike's info is:
www.heawarsaw.com
[email protected]
Tel: 574-269-2603
Fax: 574-269-4188
Clark Timothy ([email protected])<br>Geothermal Heat Pumps: Heating and Cooling that's Dirt Cheap!<br>www.pinksgeothermal.com
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