Farmboy
 Basic Member
 Posts:356
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| 20 Jul 2008 12:16 PM |
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For my upcoming ICF home, I've had a Manual J (A/C & heat load analysis) and a Manual D (duct design) done by independent professionals. They are intimately familiar with energy efficient structures (ICF, SIP, tight stud, etc.) and integrating HVAC systems with the structure.
How do you professional installers look at calcs/designs done by others? Note, these folks stated they will talk to our installer to answer questions and discuss the design.
Do you include some cost for design/redesign even when the client brings their own to the table?
These designs also came with Construction and HVAC specifications. How do you look at these?
Do many residential requests for bids come with design & specs?
Dave
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Palace Geothermal
 Veteran Member
 Posts:1609
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| 20 Jul 2008 04:25 PM |
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As an installer I would be very pleased if a customer came to me with calcs all ready done. |
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Dewayne Dean <br>www.PalaceGeothermal.com<br>Why settle for 90% when you can have 400%<br>We heat and cool with dirt!<br>visit- http://welserver.com/WEL0114/- to see my system |
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tuffluckdriller
 Advanced Member
 Posts:630

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| 20 Jul 2008 05:44 PM |
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As long as you're confident those numbers are correct, I'd be fine with it. As an installer, I would then make no guarantee of those loads. I would, though, guarantee that my system would perform to put out the specified amount of heat/cool necessary to meet the provided load. |
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| Clark Timothy ([email protected])<br>Geothermal Heat Pumps: Heating and Cooling that's Dirt Cheap!<br>www.pinksgeothermal.com |
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Farmboy
 Basic Member
 Posts:356
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| 20 Jul 2008 08:02 PM |
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Thanks. Clark, can you get a warm fuzzy that the calcs are in the ballpark by bouncing them off the plans? |
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engineer
 Veteran Member
 Posts:2749
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| 20 Jul 2008 09:10 PM |
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Excellent move having (and paying for) Manual J and D calcs. If I were your installer I would absolutely run my own as well and strive to work out any discrepancies between mine and 'yours' ('your's here meaning intellectual property you bought and paid for). Having another set in reasonable agreement with my own (and having worked out any major differences) would buoy my confidence that I was on the right track.
You've gotten over the hump of wanting bidders to do detailed calcs. Bidders with the ability and desire to do them are reluctant to spend the hours and expertise only to have unscrupulous homeowners shop the results to lowball hacks. You also now have job specific in hand to combat the typical hack tendency to both oversize the equipment and then proceed to underduct it, or otherwise screw up the ductwork so that it fails to provide anywhere near the design airflow.
I wish all homeowners recognized the value of (and are willing to pay for) a properly designed HVAC system |
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Curt Kinder <br><br>
The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is - Winston Churchill <br><br><a href="http://www.greenersolutionsair.com">www.greenersolutionsair.com</a>
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Alton
 Veteran Member
 Posts:2164
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| 20 Jul 2008 09:29 PM |
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A homeowner paying for the calculations might be in much better shape during the bidding phase. At least all of the bidders should be bidding similar sizes and types of equipment. I believe HVAC companies would be more likely to submit a bid when the calcs are already done. |
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Residential Designer & Construction Technology Consultant -- E-mail: Alton at Auburn dot Edu Use email format with @ and period . 334 826-3979 |
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Farmboy
 Basic Member
 Posts:356
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| 20 Jul 2008 10:15 PM |
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Thanks for reinforcing how I expected responsible contractors would respond. Of course, paying for our own calcs should indicate to biddors that we're serious about proceeding. Here's hoping we'll find such contractor here. Dave |
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joe.ami
 Veteran Member
 Posts:4377

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| 21 Jul 2008 09:28 AM |
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Certainly, when investing in your home, Dave, there is nothing wrong with any information. I agree with engineer that I'm going to run my own load anyway (after all people make mistakes) because I have a responsibility to make sure it works for you. Local realities and experiences are just as important as Manual J specs. A heat load is a minimum requirement and while you don't want your system grossly oversized, "just enough" may not be ideal either. When all is said and done, you want the local contractor to accept responsibility for the design and warranty it's performance. So while you have a good idea of what's required, don't be alarmed if your installer wants to modify the plans you have. Joe |
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Joe Hardin www.amicontracting.com We Dig Comfort! www.doityourselfgeothermal.com Dig Your Own Comfort! |
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Farmboy
 Basic Member
 Posts:356
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| 21 Jul 2008 09:18 PM |
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"When all is said and done, you want the local contractor to accept responsibility for the design and warranty it's performance. So while you have a good idea of what's required, don't be alarmed if your installer wants to modify the plans you have."
Excellent observation, Joe. I welcome inputs from the biddors and accept the possibility of differences to be worked out. My Man J/D designers are willing to work those differences out with the biddors. and in doing so I would be more confident the system will meet our needs. Thx again, Dave
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joe.ami
 Veteran Member
 Posts:4377

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| 23 Jul 2008 10:31 AM |
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You're welcome Dave, Incidentally, explaining the differences in proposed designs, if it is not clear to you is where we can be most helpful. I generally will yeild to the opinion of your local installer, but am not afraid to suggest questions to if something doesn't ring true. Remember people who are respectful of others' time are more likely to have it given to them. I suspect you'll have a good experience building your home. Joe |
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Joe Hardin www.amicontracting.com We Dig Comfort! www.doityourselfgeothermal.com Dig Your Own Comfort! |
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