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Newbie with Dumb Questions
Last Post 18 Feb 2009 07:19 PM by joe.ami. 10 Replies. |
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masski
New Member
Posts:17
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| 17 Feb 2009 02:45 PM |
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First, I gotta say, I've learned a awful lot on this site. Thank you all.
My husband and I are planning on updating our 15 year old Colonial home in Central Massachusetts. We have a whole lot of equity, and with low rates and good credit we think this might be a good time to go ahead and do some dream renovations. Unlike my neighbors with granite counters and hot tubs, I want a green home.
We are having a Solar Panel 'chickie' out on Thursday afternoon, and I kinda know what to expect from that visit. We sit well for solar with an open lot and all is well there.
On Thursday morning we are expecting our HVAC guy out to look at our home. I would LOVE to be able to change over to geothermal, but I have a lot of questions. Some are stupid, but please bear with me.
My home is a 15 year old fairly well insulated wood frame. It has a full basement we have finished 4 years ago. We are also planning to finish the attic. Total SQFT if we do finish the Attic is 3100 ft.
We have FHW Naturral Gas for heating and hot water, Central Air. This means we have both baseboards and ductwork.
Would we have to tear out the baseboards for the new system? Is it going to be really dry air? YUCK. Is there anyway we can keep our baseboard heat?
How loud is the fan for a gthp? My 12 year old son is autistic, he is really sensitive to noise.
Our home is ON an undergound stream. We blow out a sump pump every 18 months because it has never shut off. OK maybe in July/August for 20 days or so.
Really stupid question here, the water is always about 55F, any chance we can use this as part of our geothermal? It would be great to turn that LEMON into LEMONADE.
We have a 600ft well on the property, we only use it for irrigation but it is 'pretty good' I don't know how to find the tonnage/sqft/gpm ratio for my part of the country
does that even make sense?
Thank you everyone in advance for your help and patience.
M.
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geo fan
Basic Member
Posts:408
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| 17 Feb 2009 06:10 PM |
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Ill try to hit a few
You do not have to tear out base board but alone will not be able to heat your home (180 vs 120 water ) you could use it as first stage and an air system for colder days
Its a common misconception that warm air drys the home more then radiant base board , What does happen is you have 140 degree air out and 70 in
the 150 degree air has a higher capacity to hold water then the 70 and without adding humidity the relative humidity drops ,
with this air blowing on you it feels dry , but with geo the air is cooler 80-100 (depending on equip, stage , and airflow) so the RH is much closer to the rest of the house , but forced air has the plus of giving you the ability to filter and humidify though the winter
The noise of the fan is dependent on ductwork , typicly ECM fans and good duct design turn on and off barely noticed
A high water table no matter how you cut it is a plus with geo
you could do a number of things , go open loop as you suggested ( 2 problems getting rid of the water , increased maint ) if those two things are not deal breakers open loop gives great eff , and lower install cost
Estimating tonnage is a no no , only an accurate heat load calc ( manual J ) can tell you
Not one dumb question in the bunch , hope I helped
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masski
New Member
Posts:17
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| 17 Feb 2009 07:10 PM |
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Thanks so much geo fan. I am really excited to hear what the HVAC guy says.
I'll try to stay away from trying to estimate my tonnage, it's tough tho'.
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TechGromit
Advanced Member
Posts:634
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| 18 Feb 2009 02:32 PM |
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Posted By geo fan on 02/17/2009 6:10 PM
Ill try to hit a few
A high water table no matter how you cut it is a plus with geo
you could do a number of things , go open loop as you suggested ( 2 problems getting rid of the water , increased maint ) if those two things are not deal breakers open loop gives great eff , and lower install cost
I don't agree. It really depends on the water quality. If the water has too many impurities in it, it could be unusable in the geo system. If the water is usuable, it would depend on the flow rate of the sump pump. if the flow rate isn't high enough, it would have to be tied into the well pump in a way that there is no backflow into the well or the sump pump. PS. You said you have to replace the sump pump every 18 months, what happens when it goes, does your basement flood? A flooded basement is a cause for a lot of concern, given dispite geo's utilizing water for the heat pump, the unit is far from water proof. Water damage to a geo would be a very costly problem to fix. |
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geo fan
Basic Member
Posts:408
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| 18 Feb 2009 02:55 PM |
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I wasnt saying it was the best choice for there specific situation , or if it would be possible , as I dont know there specific situation
only that no matter what design they go for a high water table is a plus |
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masski
New Member
Posts:17
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| 18 Feb 2009 03:33 PM |
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Thanks for the concern Tech Gromit, I'll tackle the thing I understand best first. Our sump pump is actually a high hp primary with an even higher hp backup placed 6" higher. our sump well is 8' deep (nearly 15' below grade) because our builder who installed the first hole--5 years after the house was built-- was an A$$, but that's beside the point. We have a Natural Gas backup generator and a battery back up as well as a small hand pump which works great if you are willing to break your arm to save the basement. I've not had to use the battery(it's charged regularly) , or the hand pump in over 4 years, since we put the generator in.
The quality of the water is very high according to my 15 year old son's AP Chem class. They did a water study on the sump well and my irrigation well last spring. There are trace minerals, but no organic matter or pestisides. That'll have to be checked by someone who knows what they're actually doing. We've only blown out pumps, never lost them to a clog. Our dogs and local wildlife often drink from the run off. and it has not frozen over since the original install of the perimiter (sp?) drain.
I do like the idea of using both the irrigation well and the sump, that would be my first choice.
Again Geofan, I am hoping you are right about our high water table being a plus. With my luck, it would be everyone elses high water table works, but yours. ;-)
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bartman99
New Member
Posts:57
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| 18 Feb 2009 03:34 PM |
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With a 600' well, particularly one not used for domestic water, you could look into a standing column well system (I am not affiliated in any way with the link business). Poke around that website and you'll find a fair amount of scientific papers on SCW's. With a SCW you essentially have an open system, but where you return the water to the same well (instead of dumping it). B |
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engineer
Veteran Member
Posts:2749
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| 18 Feb 2009 03:37 PM |
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I 2nd the SCW motion.
It is definitely worth a look if water quality checks out. Northeastgeo looks to be a quality outfit - just an impression, no hard data. |
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Curt Kinder <br><br>
The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is - Winston Churchill <br><br><a href="http://www.greenersolutionsair.com">www.greenersolutionsair.com</a>
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masski
New Member
Posts:17
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| 18 Feb 2009 03:51 PM |
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thanks bartman. I have studied some of the standing column well info out there. I am always willing to study more.
Maybe someone knows the answer to this question. . .
My town has well drilled all over this area there is a protected aquifer nearby. Let's see if I can phrase this right. The wells the town drilled are dormant drinking water wells, they reserve the right to restart them. The land the wells sit on is about 450 ft from my house--though not as the water would flow, I am 'upstream' if it goes by sea level. The water simply not used but it's good (damn good water) at one time sold in bottles to city folks, before that it was a destination for tourists who came for 'the waters.' But that's all beside the point, if the town decides to mess with the aquifer would I be up the creek? (so to speak).
As you can tell my knowledge of geology is downright pitiful.
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engineer
Veteran Member
Posts:2749
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| 18 Feb 2009 04:55 PM |
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If the town pumped really hard then yes, your well's static level could fall.
What is the present static level in that 600' well?
Town pumps might actually work in favor of a SCW geo system - Their pumping might cause lateral movement of aquifer water through your well, improving its geothermal performance - that could overcome minor to moderate static level drop.
I'm no expert, though.
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Curt Kinder <br><br>
The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is - Winston Churchill <br><br><a href="http://www.greenersolutionsair.com">www.greenersolutionsair.com</a>
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joe.ami
Veteran Member
Posts:4377
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| 18 Feb 2009 07:19 PM |
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What gpm does your sump pump pump? Is it continuous, almost continuous.......?
I wonder if there is heat energy we could employ there. Look for a contractor who might try to use this in the design (if you go open loop). If you go closed, high water table is still a plus as gf points out.
High water quality does not mean no fouling of a heat exchanger....
Let us know what local guru's think.
Good Luck,
Joe |
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Joe Hardin
www.amicontracting.com
We Dig Comfort!
www.doityourselfgeothermal.com
Dig Your Own Comfort! |
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