Hello all, I am new to this forum but found it while searching for info on Hydro Delta. Here is the deal. We built a new house two summers ago and had a hydro-heat mega tek quadro therm geothermal unit put in our house. For anybody that cares the model # is 03-062-WTARW-TS-MT. We told the contractor that we wanted a geo thermal unit that provided heating, cooling and heated our in-floor heat. We have about 1900-2000sqft of infloor heat in the basement floor. We were told that this hydro heat unit would be able to do all three. He consulted with our local supplier who distributes hydro delta products. So they install the unit and we move into our house in Oct. of 2008. From Nov-Apr. we had on average electric bills of over $300.00 dollars. Two months they were over $400.00. No matter what they did, the unit would not satisfy the in-floor heat calls. We would set the in-floor heat thermostats at 70 degrees and it never got above 66-68 degrees in the basement. They were out 6 different times trying to figure out what was wrong. Fast forward to this winter. I did a lot of reading of the manual that came with our unit and found it interesting that no where does it mention anything about our unit heating infloor heat. It just talks about the on-demand water heating that our unit comes with. So I Hydro Delta myself and ask them" Does our geo-unit have the capability to run infloor heat". His answer " It can but we do not recommend it." After I told him that we have 1900 sqft of infloor he said " your unit does not have the capacity to run that much infloor heat." I read in our manual that when our unit is in the water heating mode, that it will deny all calls for heating and cooling except for electric strip heat. The tech at hydro delta told me on the phone that exact same thing. So all of last winter, we were running on electric backup heat 95% of the time, because our geo unit was constantly trying to satisfy the call of the in-floor heat! Once I found this out I was extremely upset! We just paid $ 30,000 for a unit that does not do, or is incapable of doing what we were promised it would do by the contractor. So I got my lawyer involved and we are demanding that we get a new geo unit and from what I have been reading on these forums, it sounds like hydro delta is definately not the brand of geo to have. Long story short I contacted the wholesaler in our area and he told me that we are not the first ones he has heard that have this problem. I told him that we are demanding that we get a new geo unit that heats, cools and heats our infloor heat. He said that he does not have one that does all three. Their is another local contractor in the area that deals with and are probably the experts in the area when it comes to geo. They told me that their unit, without a doubt, will heat, cool, heat domestic water and heat infloor heat. I told the wholesaler that I am requesting that they pay for this unit to be installed by this other contractor. The wholesaler is coming to my house monday to supposedly offer me a deal. I have a feeling he is going to try and make me keep the hydro delta unit and try to get me or sell me a boiler to heat my infloor heat. In my opinion this is total BS. My mom and dad built a house around 5 years ago and they got geo put in their house and absolutely love it. Their unit also heats, cools, heats their hot water, and heats their infloor heat. And to top it all off, I noticed the other morning that our electric heat light on our thermostat was on and the low pressure lockout light on the front of our mega-tek unit was flashing. Come to find out we have a refrigerant leak in our heat exchanger on our hydro delta unit. The tech told me that we are lucky that we do not have our unit hooked up to heat our domestic water, because the refridgerant is going right into that water heater! Now until this whole mess gets resolved, we are running 100% of the time on electric strip heat! Anyway, sorry about the long post, but does anybody else out there think that the wholesaler should give me a refund and pay for the install of a different geo unit that does what we were promised? Am I right in saying that hydro delta geo units are a piece of junk? If anybody out there has any helpful info at all to the matter I just described, please post away.  ( I thought the hydro delta tech told me that our unit kicks out about 22,000 btu's. How many  btu's would I need to heat 1900sqft of in floor heat in a basement floor?) From what I am hearing it is a lot, lot, more than 22,000. Any help, please, Thanks.











mt

Anybody have any info on the situation? What are everybody's thoughts about hydro delta?

Are there any HVAC people on here that can also confirm that our unit is not designed to run infloor heat? Any help or comments would be greatly appreciated.

Be advised, there is no "COMBO" unit that will provide both heated air and water at the same time. The unit will be set up as air priority or hot water priority.

I've never been a big fan of combo units but they do have their place. Personally, I think 2,000 SqFt is asking the combo unit to do too much. I would suggest installing a water to air unit for the main area of your home and a separate water to water unit dedicated to the infloor heat.

Did your contractor install insulation under the slab and around the slab's perimeter? If so, what type and how much?

Bergy

I believe they used 2" foam insulation under the slab and ran the infloor loops about 12 inches apart. The slab is 3-4 inches thick. I am not familiar with the terminology you are using when you say " water to air unit" and " water to water" unit. From what I understand you are saying is that we need a geo unit to heat and cool our home and need a separate boiler of some sort to run the infloor heat, right? Can a geo unit help power the boiler in some way to heat the infloor? I apologize for not knowing a lot of the terminology used on this forum.

Water to Air...Water in the loop field to heat, or cool, the air in the home.

Water to Water... Water in the loop field to heat, or cool, water for the hydronics.

Bergy

I don't know squat about the quality/reputation of Hydro Delta, but it sounds like the simplest / least expensive solution might be to keep the existing Hydro Delta unit attached to the air ducts (after getting the heat exchanger replaced), and add a water-to-water geothermal unit (hydro delta "magnum" series, for example) sized for 1900 sq ft of bsmt in-floor heat. The new unit would sit right beside the existing unit and connect to the same flow center. Of course the next question is would the geo loop field be able to handle both, or it this going to require more excavation?

Does anybody know how many Btu's a system would have to put out to run 1900sqft. of infloor heat? The infloor is in a basement floor with 2" foam insulation or "dowboard" as we call it up in this part of the country, with 3-4" inches of concrete over the foam insulation.

My guess would be 2 - 3 tons. You need a heat loss calc to know for sure.

Can someone with the know how tell me if our hydro delta mega tek unit has the capability to run infloor heat? A simple yes or no answer, and why or why not. Again we would be asking the unit to run 1900 sqft in a basement slab.

It sounds like the manufacturer has already answered your question. Not much more we can tell you.

I thought, but I am not sure, when I talked to the manufacturer of the hydro heat unit, that he said for 1900 sqft. of infloor heat, you would have to figure at least 38 Btu's per sqft. Does that sound right to anybody that makes btu calculations? Sorry if my questions sound stupid. Just trying to learn as many basics as I can about this geo and infloor heat stuff. Thanks so far to all that have posted, appreciate it.

I don't know much about radiant, but I'm quite certain there is no one magic number of btuh per SF. Everything depends on the load of the rooms to be heated. WIndows, doors, exposures, climate would all figure in and be unique to every job.

Furthermore 38 btuh / SF works out to a very high total heat load for the basement - in excess of 6 nominal tons, about triple what I'd expect

We need a Manual J building load calc to be able to dial in on what's needed.

I regret you are having such a miserable experience.

What do you mean by perimeter insulation? The 2" dowboard is tight to our concrete walls for the basement in the floor. We have 9ft. concrete basement walls.

The basement slab must sit in a "TUB" of insulation. Insulation under the slab as well as around the edges of the slab.

Bergy

Well it sounds like the supplier is going to put in a new water to water unit from hydro delta. I believe it is a magnum series hydronic system. Now the issue is who is going to pay for the install and labor. My original contractor that put in the original mega tek unit, just about burnt down our brand new house this fall. We had him vent our fireplace and one day this fall we had a house fire. Long story short, it is more than likely his fault because the investagators found out that it was a faulty install of the vent pipe. So, if we want to get the install and labor for free on our new geo unit, we would have to have him do the install. It is either that or he pays another local contractor's labor and install bill. We have the utmost confidence in the other contractor, they are the leader in our area as far as geo goes. I so wish we would have went with the other contractor in the first place, but building a new house on a tight budget, they were a little more expensive. I do not want the original contractor in my house again because in my opinion he and his techs know nothing about geo and the biggest reason is he is more than likely the cause of our house fire. I don't know what to do here. I suppose either he will say he will do the work on our new unit for free, or maybe he might understand the relationship we now have because of the house fire and just accept to pay the labor for somebody else to do the install, and cut his hands free from the situation. Anybody got any advice? Any info on the magnum hydronic unit from hydro delta? I wish I would have found this site when we were in the beginning stages of building our house and found out more info on geo and what brands are good and have quality.

No, the existing mega tek unit will be gone. This magnum hydronic unit is supposed to be able to heat, cool, and heat our infloor heat.

To answer many of your questions.....I think the installing contractor was the problem here and you are lucky to get anything from the distributor.
A water to water geo unit would be more expensive to install initially, so it would not be unreasonable for you to have some out of pocket expense.
If you wish to pay nothing, it will be most expedient to use original installer. Regarding the fire, if there was an inspection, I don't know that something didn't change after the installation.
All of us know better but are still attracted to the false economy of a lower bid you are a great reminder of why it's not cheaper.
Good Luck,
Joe