Big issue with Hydro Delta mega tek unit/what do I do?
Last Post 24 Mar 2017 03:43 PM by WEFORTUNE. 27 Replies.
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geomeUser is Offline
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20 Jan 2010 10:13 AM
Posted By joe.ami on 01/20/2010 9:32 AM
All of us know better but are still attracted to the false economy of a lower bid you are a great reminder of why it's not cheaper.
Good Luck,
Joe
In general terms, the lowest bid isn't necessarily the worst, and highest bid isn't necessarily the best.  I still ponder the $14,000 higher bid for our system from an installer with much less experience than the installer we went with, and several other quotes that were $5,000 - $6,000 more, (only one company of which had more experience than our installer.)
Homeowner with WF Envision NDV038 (packaged) & NDZ026 (split), one 3000' 4 pipe closed horizontal ground loop, Prestige thermostats, desuperheaters, 85 gal. Marathon.
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21 Jan 2010 09:05 AM
Posted By geome on 01/20/2010 10:13 AM
Posted By joe.ami on 01/20/2010 9:32 AM
All of us know better but are still attracted to the false economy of a lower bid you are a great reminder of why it's not cheaper.
Good Luck,
Joe
[/quote]In general terms, the lowest bid isn't necessarily the worst, and highest bid isn't necessarily the best.  I still ponder the $14,000 higher bid for our system from an installer with much less experience than the installer we went with, and several other quotes that were $5,000 - $6,000 more, (only one company of which had more experience than our installer.)

Ahhh, lest you forget your installing contractor bid more as well, but offered you a slow season discount.
Of course general observations are only generally correct. We needn't get into every exception.
You might recall in my list of top ten price is at the bottom of importance. In OP's case I think the list may have served well with it's emphasis on other things first.
j
Joe Hardin
www.amicontracting.com
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www.doityourselfgeothermal.com
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21 Jan 2010 09:26 AM
While we were fortunate with our $25,000 bid, that doesn't explain the $8,000 higher price we were quoted from a less experienced installer that was above the other quotes we received (excluding the $25,000 quote). Sometimes price gets you something, sometimes it does not, period.

For a given car, I can go into a dealership and pay full MSRP (wow, will they be happy), or I can do my research and pay $200 - $400 over invoice for the same car at another dealer (maybe even at the same dealer). The car isn't any less reliable (since it is the same car), I just paid less for it.

It's not that simple with a geothermal installation. Unfortunately, it's up to homeowners to learn as much as they can on geothermal and installations and try and make the best decision they can based on what they know.  Sometimes people can do everything right, and still have problems since they are not experts.

Price is one considerations. Other considerations, but not all, are listed in the top ten list, but it's a good starting point. "... MY list of top ten..." ? Lots of people contributed to the list. Thanks for the list idea, assembling it, and contributing to it as well. I'm sure it will help lots of people. :-)
Homeowner with WF Envision NDV038 (packaged) & NDZ026 (split), one 3000' 4 pipe closed horizontal ground loop, Prestige thermostats, desuperheaters, 85 gal. Marathon.
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21 Jan 2010 10:13 AM
Posted By geome on 01/21/2010 9:26 AM
While we were fortunate with our $25,000 bid, that doesn't explain the $8,000 higher price we were quoted from a less experienced installer that was above the other quotes we received (excluding the $25,000 quote). Sometimes price gets you something, sometimes it does not, period.

I had a conversation with the County inspector recently, where I told him the fellows I've been using to do my duct systems are faster and cheaper than me. He pointed out that you have to charge more when you are not as fast, since you have to spend more time on the job!
He may be on to something.
Other things that influence price of course include a companies cost of doing business which varies wildly.
j
Joe Hardin
www.amicontracting.com
We Dig Comfort!
www.doityourselfgeothermal.com
Dig Your Own Comfort!
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23 Jan 2010 04:30 PM
Posted By joe.ami on 01/21/2010 10:13 AM
 you have to charge more when you are not as fast, since you have to spend more time on the job!
I think he's on to something there. Along similar lines maybe the inexperienced high bidder was also figuring in his extra expenses for coming back multiple times to fix things he didn't know how to do right the first time. LOL

Bonz, I've been looking into these combo units (heated and A/C  forced air plus radiant heat) and one big issue that springs up is the balance between A/C and heat loads. 

My heat load is quite a bit higher than my cooling needs so if I were to get a unit that could supply all the radiant heat and forced air heat then it would be way oversized for cooling and wouldn't dehumidify my house well in the summer.  Add to it that by their nature geo heat pumps typically put out more cooling btus than heating btus and that only aggravates the problem. 

If you are in an area where cooling loads predominate then those combo units might work better. Otherwise you'll probably find that once the radiant heat load is satisfied there is nothing left for the forced air except electric backup. Or if you satisfy the heat load needed for the air there's nothing left for the water.




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21 Jun 2010 09:33 AM
Hello,

We have a Megatek unit with the DHW option on it we've have since 2000. After finally fixing a loop leak (we have a horizontal "slinky" loop) in the unit during the 2nd year of operation, it's been a pretty decent system. We are going to be finishing our basement this fall and I was going to entertain the idea of using radiant floor heat from the Megatek since it will be a small area (less than 800 sq feet). I was wondering what you decided to do as far as your hot water floor heat went?
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22 Jun 2010 12:13 AM
Al'green,
nice to hear your experience with HD has been a good one.
changing demands on any 10 year old system is always something that should be carefully planned.
I suggest contributions from both a geo and a hydronics pro.
Start with Man J load.
PLEASE do not let on-line radiant tube sales firm be your only designer in this.
Consult our friends on the radiant forum for more help.
Good Luck,
Joe
Joe Hardin
www.amicontracting.com
We Dig Comfort!
www.doityourselfgeothermal.com
Dig Your Own Comfort!
WEFORTUNEUser is Offline
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24 Mar 2017 03:43 PM
Hydro Delta heat pumps (water to air and hot water heating) had several problems, not only with the refrigerant tubing but the computer. If the water never got heated the heat pump wouldn't switch to heating/cooling.
As for the radiant floor. I assume that there was at least 2 inches of foam board below the slab, otherwise there is no way to heat the floor.
For a 1900 sq. ft. floor I calculate that it would take at least 120 tons of heating (12,000 btu/ton). Using a 4 ton heat pump it would take at least 30 hours and more likely 40 hours to heat the concrete if the room was above 65 degrees or the floor covered. Then a 40 ton unit would keep the room warm, assuming that the house is Energy Star rated.
When I say 4 tons I mean that the heat pump is actually delivering close to 48,000 btu's/ hour. (using an "open loop well").

We did a large swimming pool house and pool using 2- 5 ton units, water-water. The pool room floor is kept at 90 degrees and the pool at 90 degrees and the pool room at about 80 degrees. the garage can also be kept at 50 degrees. The kitchen area has spot cooling. This system is in central NH.
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