Hi!

thanks for all the replies.

ive tried all those changes on the tstat to see if it would make any difference.

im just really not sure if the geo running 24 hrs a day is normal.   at night i cant really watch it to see what its doing but i assume its runnign constantly.

im only basing my information on what the installer and audit professional told me.

the installer told me based on a report i should be spending around $2500 a year for heating.

in the last 2.5 months ive spent close to that already.

$600 + $1000 + next one will be around $600 again as im watching KW's used.

in regards to BTU's I think i faguely remember they were around 140,000 BTUs for my home.          ill see if i can get a heat loss report from my builder.

i was looking at some costs on my home prior to this one and i spent about $200 on heating and $140 on electricity.  My home was 3700 sq ft not including the basement.   basement area was finished.  thats also why im alittle astonished and upset.

in regards to

Climatemaster's manuals suggest that in 2nd stage, "normal" for your 6 ton unit is about 4 to 10 degree temp drop, depending on how many gpm are flowing through the unit. For your 3 ton unit when running in 2nd staqe, "normal" is a 4.5 to 10.9 degree temp drop. That's a pretty big spread.

What we really want to know here are these separate readings for each of your two units
- water in, water out and air in, air out when running in stage 1

Stage 2 is kicking in when there is a 2 degree difference. 

stage 1 is usually whats running ALL the time 24 hrs a day.

the set temp would be 21 and current temp would be 21 but the system still runs.  is that normal?

Posted By velcomrob on 17 Feb 2010 11:54 PM

stage 1 is usually whats running ALL the time 24 hrs a day.

the set temp would be 21 and current temp would be 21 but the system still runs.  is that normal?

Posted By geome on 18 Feb 2010 06:57 AM
The experts here can tell you, based on your heat loss, if your system should be running as much as it does. Your installer may be able to provide you with printouts showing estimated running hours per year at different outdoor temperatures. I would also find out from your installer what your system design temperature is.

Is this year colder than the previous year? Can you calculate the percent change, then adust your previous years kWh and gas used, then multiply this by the current utility rates to see what you may have spent without switching to geothermal?

Posted By geonorth on 18 Feb 2010 11:27 AM
I assume the $2500 is incremental cost on top of your normal electric usage.
You need to extract your normal usage from your amount paid to compare.
In my case my electric usage before geo was about $200/month. This would be $1000 of the $2500 to bring the total more in line with the installer.

Posted By docjenser on 18 Feb 2010 11:26 AM
How much of your costs are geothermal related. You moved into a new house, and you now compare apples and oranges with your old house. I have a 120.000 BTU/h heating load with 70F outside and 0F degrees design temp in Buffalo NY. My gas bill was $4900 before Geo, now I am paying $2500 more in electricity/Year. You having a 140.000 BTU/h load further north in Canada makes $2500/year look very good. This winter is unusually cold this year, making a difference as well. Wait until the shoulder season where you do not run the heat and see how much the base load of your house is in terms of electricity consumption. So far your numbers seem right on target.

Posted By jml on 18 Feb 2010 10:17 AM

Posted By velcomrob on 17 Feb 2010 11:54 PM

stage 1 is usually whats running ALL the time 24 hrs a day.

the set temp would be 21 and current temp would be 21 but the system still runs.  is that normal?

Nope, not normal, unless "smart recovery" is trying to bump up the house temp just before a programmed temp increase is supposed to kick in.

When you say "the system still runs" do you mean that the fan is on 24 hours a day, or the compressor. When the current temp reaches the set point, the 24v Y1 signal from the thermostat to the unit should turn off, the Y1 LED on the board inside the unit should turn off, and the compressor should shut off. Normally you'd also want the fan to turn off at the same time, meaning that the 24v "G" signal from the thermostat should turn off, and the "G" LED on the board inside the unit should turn off. However, your thermostat has a configuration setting to keep the fan running even when the thermostat is off - called "intermittent fan" (look in the manual for the details).  It is unlikely but possible that this feature could haven been accidentally configured to keep the fan running 24 hours a day.  That'll add a bit to your electrical bill. Not a huge amount, but enough to notice.

I am really serious about you taking actual temp readings of air in and out and water in and out on both units in both stages of operation if you want to know whether these units are really performing up to spec. We're looking to see an air temp delta in the 17 to 27 degree range and a water temp delta in the 4 to 10 degree range for each unit when running in 2nd stage (see the "Unit Operating Conditions" in the back of the Tranquility 27 installation manual). Anything outside that range could indicate a problem.

Posted By velcomrob on 18 Feb 2010 12:10 PM

What would cause the compressor to always run?  I can see what the indoor temp is at from the tstat and it matches what we want it to be at yet the compressor will still run on Stage 1 continously.

hi sorry for late reply.

my installer replied and will be coming next week to take a look.

our floor plan is not that open.   there is one stairs leading upstairs and thats about it.  the unit upstairs runs constantly as well.

i define mild as in we didnt have that much snow this year and temps were usually above -10 meanwhile last year it was MUCH colder -20 -30.

i also noticed sometihng else weird.   when i came home the tstat was running in stage1 mode and the temp on the screen showed "21" as current temp indoors, but i have another meter sitting above my tstat and it showwed 22.5 in the room.    so i turned off the HEAT mode and then turned it back on, the tstat had the proper room temp after i reset it.  what would cause that?

thanks for the information however im using a ClimateMaster ATP32 tstat.

i think i finally solved the problem.

what I did was increase my offset temp by 1 and increased ANTICIPATOR to 7

today the tstat reached 22 and shut off right after.

could it be a miracle.   im crossing my fingers.