decafdrinker
Basic Member
Posts:420
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| 11 May 2011 11:06 AM |
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Please note this post is in conjunction with on-going conversation with my installer and the sales rep for the product. I'm awaiting responses from all of them. In the meantime, I've found this board to be very helpful in the past, so I'm posting here as well. As any resolutions are found, I will post the updates for the benefit of all.
I have a 4 ton GeoMax (CM) with a closed loop, propylene glycol antifreeze. The Rehau-brand brass manifold is leaking in 3 locations. If you look at the manifold, there are 4 individual flow gauges. Each gauge is attached to the manifold with a brass nut. Three of the 4 nuts are dripping with antifreeze. I know it's not condensation. I've collected about 1/4 of a cup in 24 hours, and it's been dripping probably for weeks (I've also had a lot of condensation, so I didn't really notice it. When I switched to cooling, the condensation went away, but the drips remained).
On the advice of my installer, I've tried tightening the nuts with a wrench, but the drips continue. My installer is researching. The service/sales rep from Rehau has been contacted also.
I know many closed loops are all fused and the manifolds are buried and don't have this problem. However, I have the manifold, and have this problem.
What options could be tried?
* ground loop conditioner? - supposedly seals leaks up to 1/8", called "Fix A Leak"
* removing the nuts, using teflon tape?
* removing the nuts, applying pipe-sealant or pipe dope?
It's unlikely I'd ever need to remove these nuts, so can they be epoxied/sealed/welded/soldered?
Considering the number of bolts/connections on the manifold as a whole (16), I'm surprised 3 are leaking, but fortunately, it's only those 3.  |
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docjenser
Veteran Member
Posts:1400
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| 12 May 2011 12:27 AM |
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Sure, get the Rehau rep . I forgot, pressurized or non-pressurized system? If non pressurized, take the nuts out, put teflon around them, put it back in, purge each loop.
If pressurized, do the same, and get your installer to wheel in his purge cart. |
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| www.buffalogeothermalheating.com |
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acwizard
Basic Member
Posts:265
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| 12 May 2011 03:51 AM |
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Remove and apply teflon pipe dope on threads of flow indicators as per mfg. specifications. |
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joe.ami
Veteran Member
Posts:4377
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| 12 May 2011 07:38 AM |
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No sense in only taping the three joints that are leaking now, you might want to get all of them.
J |
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Joe Hardin
www.amicontracting.com
We Dig Comfort!
www.doityourselfgeothermal.com
Dig Your Own Comfort! |
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decafdrinker
Basic Member
Posts:420
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| 12 May 2011 07:58 AM |
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sounds like taping or some sort of teflon dope is the way to go. Wasn't sure if teflon was ok to use with glycol/etc.
Doc - it's a pressurized system...I think it's 50 psi when off. The installer said everything has a 1- year warranty, and this only went in in December of 2010.
Joe- you're right. It's only a matter of time, so I'll ask him to do all 4. |
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Bergy
Basic Member
Posts:277
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| 12 May 2011 08:27 AM |
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There is a rubber O ring making the seal of the flow gauge. If I remember correctly, the O ring is the only thing making a seal not the threads. Have your contractor get a set of O rings or new flow gauges.
Bergy
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geome
Advanced Member
Posts:987
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| 12 May 2011 08:38 AM |
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If O rings, I wonder if a grease (such as silicone valve stem grease) is needed? Probably best to find out what the manufacturer suggests (if anything.) |
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| Homeowner with WF Envision NDV038 (packaged) & NDZ026 (split), one 3000' 4 pipe closed horizontal ground loop, Prestige thermostats, desuperheaters, 85 gal. Marathon. |
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decafdrinker
Basic Member
Posts:420
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| 22 May 2011 03:32 PM |
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Got hold of a rep at the company that manufactures the part that is leaking...seems the guy who helped me last year to confirm the manifold was backwards (see prior posts) is no longer there. Got hold of the service rep who promised to look into the whole situation.
Meanwhile, weather's been nice enough not to need the system. Checked the pressure out of curiosity (was pressurized to 50 when off, back in November). Pressure in the loop now is 20. How much would have to leak out of a 100 gallon system to cause a pressure drop from 50 to 20, of 25% propylene glycol? |
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docjenser
Veteran Member
Posts:1400
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| 23 May 2011 12:47 PM |
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not much....liquid is incompressable. Keep in mind that the pipe expands with increase in Temperature, which will contribute to the decrease in pressure. |
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| www.buffalogeothermalheating.com |
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decafdrinker
Basic Member
Posts:420
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| 02 Jun 2011 06:02 AM |
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To provide some follow-up:
The installer and a company rep came out today and they want to make this matter right. My installer has ordered 4 new gauges, with both he and the company rep thinking that probably something happened with the o-rings. These manifolds are rated up to 145 psi, and mine is leaking with a pressure of 15 psi. The 4 gauges will be in next week and will be installed with pipe dope also (as per mfg spec.). Fortunately, the system continues to run ok and keep the house cool on these sweltering humid 90s days. I will update again when the new gauges are installed. |
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geome
Advanced Member
Posts:987
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| 02 Jun 2011 07:26 AM |
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Excellent! |
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| Homeowner with WF Envision NDV038 (packaged) & NDZ026 (split), one 3000' 4 pipe closed horizontal ground loop, Prestige thermostats, desuperheaters, 85 gal. Marathon. |
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decafdrinker
Basic Member
Posts:420
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| 11 Jun 2011 11:46 AM |
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Aaaahhh....I spoke too soon. Rehau has decided that the entire manifold should be replaced, not just the gauges, and are working to credit everyone appropriately. This will be the 3rd manifold installed at my house.
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decafdrinker
Basic Member
Posts:420
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| 20 Aug 2011 08:00 PM |
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Just a follow-up to this thread. My new guy came out last week and replaced the entire manifold (3rd one now), and DANG IT, this is leaking TOO!! First, it was the big end-cap on the return header. I tightened that down a bit more with a big plumbers' wrench and it seems to have stopped it; but where one of the four loops connects to the header, there's an occasional drip. I wipe it off, it reappears a couple hours later.
So it's VERY slow. Is this a situation for loop-conditioner? |
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joe.ami
Veteran Member
Posts:4377
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| 21 Aug 2011 10:48 AM |
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Might plug itself if left alone. I wouldn't suggest loop conditioner to correct any warranty problem, nor would I discourage you from accepting a reasonable solution after awhile.
First call rehau back, you are offering them education as well.
j |
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Joe Hardin
www.amicontracting.com
We Dig Comfort!
www.doityourselfgeothermal.com
Dig Your Own Comfort! |
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