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Based on what information, you concluded geo was for you?

Last Post 19 Jan 2012 07:15 PM by Time out. 65 Replies.

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sesmith

New Member

Posts:62

06 Jan 2012 01:03 PM
Posted By In the know on 06 Jan 2012 12:03 PM What is your agenda? You also sold geo to your self? ?

Paul Auerbach User is Offline

New Member

Posts:88

12 Jan 2012 05:06 PM
Posted By ICFHybrid on 06 Jan 2012 09:00 AM ...people who lack knowledge and experience should not mislead others here. Would it be fair to say that people, particularly if they have knowledge and experience, should not mislead others in the pursuit of financial gain? [quote]It should be a place we all gain knowledge through the exchange of information.[/quote] I'm learning a lot by reading this thr The last few weeks of posts have been dark. Instead of one-up we should pass knowledge about something we all know well - geothermal. It doesn't help when geothermal gets buried in financial jargon and doublespeak. Tell me how to make it work better. Turn me on to people who are using geothermal and can demonstrate the tangible benefits. Show me happy geothermal owners and let me see in black and white how much they save and how comfortable their indoor environment is... Geothermal DESERVES tax advantages, but can survive on it's own merits. I make my living designing, selling and installing geothermal systems. The facts about geothermal are as good as the hype. In most (but not all) cases getting geothermal is both the right thing to do and and a good business decision to boot. We've put in over 125 systems since 2007 and by and large our clients say it was the best decision they ever made. There are times when geothermal isn't perfect. So, for those situations there are other options. In our trading area the hardest geothermal sell is against natural gas. Many prospective geothermal buyers feel if they can get cheap natural gas, the extra cost to install geothermal doesn't make any sense. I'm here to say that anyone who converts to natural gas is supporting hydraulic fracturing (fracking). The most recent reports are highly critical of the gas industry for putting profits in front of health when it comes to safe drinking water. Make no mistake, there may be safe ways to extract natural gas from shale formations but fracking isn't one of them. I don't know anyone who would trade cheap gas for polluted water. Paul www.TotalGreenUS.com

cnygeo

Basic Member

Posts:170

12 Jan 2012 05:59 PM
Now there's a good way to calm things down, bring up fracking :-) I'm not at all pro-fracking, but I can't let this pass by. Natural gas provides about half the electricity in the Northeast these days. By your argument I should have stuck with my old oil boiler or bought a coal stove instead of converting to geothermal so I wouldn't use any gas! If you assume an average well-to-house efficiency of 33% for natural gas generation (and that's probably being generous), you would need an average COP of about 3 just to break even with a high efficiency natural gas boiler in terms of overall energy used (Geothermal is often not as "green" as people think). Based on the typical generation mix, I'll admit that an average geothermal system uses about 1/2 the gas compared to burning it directly, but it's disingenuous to say that gas burners support fracking and heat pump users do not. By that logic geothermal users in the midwest and central must be promoting mountaintop removal because most of their electricity comes from coal. Again, I'm generally against fracking in our area and in favor of heat pumps in many cases, but this is just a ridiculous statement.

Paul Auerbach User is Offline

New Member

Posts:88

13 Jan 2012 09:38 AM
Cnygeo - You're right, statements on fracking are incendiary (pun intended), but you've misinterpreted my meaning. I was simply making the comment that folks will do what's in their best interests. It's just a fact anyone using natural gas for heating and hot water wants lower costs for it. . How do we keep costs down? Increase supply. How do we increase supply? Frack. And the natural gas industry is making an all out push to get everyone on the natural gas teat so the demand is there. Paul TotalGreenUS.com

cnygeo

Basic Member

Posts:170

16 Jan 2012 10:00 AM
I agree that changes in natural gas pricing don't show up as quickly or directly in electric rates, but I maintain my original point that heating with geo, especially in the northeast, still uses a significant amount of natural gas. My electric rate has gone down significantly in the last few years, which is great for me since I switched from an oil boiler to a heat pump. Why are electric rates down? Because gas is cheap now. I effectively switched from burning 1400 gallons of oil per year to burning 1000 therms of natural gas per year, plus some coal, hydro, and nuclear power. I guess I am encouraging fracking by my use of a geo system, then? I don't think natural gas, or any fossil fuel for tha matter is a good way to heat a home either directly or indirectly through the use of a heat pump. But for the moment most of us are stuck with it.

Time out

New Member

Posts:7

19 Jan 2012 07:15 PM
Posted By Time out on 17 Dec 2011 07:17 PM ...... would be the o. p. savings for me. The Q & A section reads: Q. Don't geothermal systems make the electric bill higher? A. Yes the do, but the additional electric cost will be much lower then the gas, the oil or propane bill you used to have. What say you? < > Nobody rises to low expectations --- Calvin Lloyd