I have been quoted a Water Furnace Geothermal Heat Pump System with EER 29.2.---R410A

4/10 Year Warranty at a total cost of $34,816.
Does this sound like a very high quote?



The home will be a stick built 2500 Sqr Feet single level with Open Foam Spray Insulation at a cost of $15,000. The house will have a crawl space that will go from 4 feet high to 6 foot high and that will be sprayed as well and is included in the $15k.

How much of the cost of the insulation and Geothermal system is part of the Federal Government  30%  rebate for a new home.
Can I also get rebates for the Stae of South Carolina?


If I have to pay $50k for HVAC and Insulation out of my pocket and get little back, I do not think I will do it.

If I use Energy Star Doors, Windows and Appliances is any of that permissable for a rebate?

Thank You

You need to add a lot more details to get a reasonable response. It will probably take a fair bit of homework on your part.

Questions:
How many heating degree days in your climate? Cooling degree days?

2x6 or 2x4 walls, ove construction? exterior foam? Spray foam what depth?
Do you have quotes for wet spray cellulose or densepack? How much are they?
Type of roof framing, and depth of insulation in ceiling?
Passive solar? U value of windows and doors?

Do you want forced air heating and cooling?  Radient? 

What are your local costs for electricity kwh, natural gas (therm) oil (gallon) or propane (gallon)
How many people in your household, long showers or short? Loads of laundry per week? \

Once you know all this, a HVAC contractor can provide a manual J calc on the heat loss of the house and you can figure out what type of heating system works best for you. Until you know what your insulation level is in the house, and windows, and doors, you can't get a worthwhile quote on the heating system.
Along with the HVAC system, don’t forget domestic hot water usage which can be a significant total part of the heat load of the house.

We will be happy to help you, but you have to help us, help you.

Cheers, Eric

You also need to get a quote on the well you'll need - that will be a major component/addition to your cost. Your geo dealer may have working relationships with some well drillers; they can check local records of recent nearby wells and give you a quote. My last quote for a geothermal system, excluding the well on a slightly larger (SIPS) home was $16,000 so yes, it does sound high, but we'd need the answers to Eric's questions to give you more of a comprehensive answer.

The federal tax credit for geothermal is 30% if done before 2016. There has been some reports that it doesn't include duct work, but that is something for you and your tax professional to work out. That works for new construction or remodel. The credits for windows, doors, and insulation is only for remodeling and doesn't apply to new construction. You probably should consult a tax professional to ensure this applies in your situation.

the genius of geothermal is that they've managed to get the tax rebates to cover the whole system including the well and the ductwork. That gives them a huge advantage over other systems and has helped to fuel their growth and acceptance. So far, rebates on most solar thermal systems only cover part of the system, but inventors are working on systems that will supply the majority of heat and should qualify.

I am a builder in SC and can tell you that the 30% rebate does not cover insulation in a new house. The last time I checked the state didn't offer any rebates on geothermal either. If you are lucky enough to be served by an electric co-op they may offer an incentive. What part of the state are you located?

Posted By hugh jones on 09 Oct 2010 11:56 PM
I am a builder in SC and can tell you that the 30% rebate does not cover insulation in a new house. The last time I checked the state didn't offer any rebates on geothermal either. If you are lucky enough to be served by an electric co-op they may offer an incentive. What part of the state are you located?

This is correct.  We looked into geothermal before we built.  The tax credit is 30% of the entire system.  In a previous post, someone mentioned well-drilling.  This can be a HUGE part of the bill.  Based on my own experience, I'm guessing that your quote includes the wells, but I'd make sure.  So...if the total for everything really is $34,000, expect to get around $11,000 back.

Insulation is not eligible for tax credits in new construction - it is for existing construction only.  Same for energy efficient windows, etc. 

That said...we looked into geothermal & couldn't justify it.  It would have been about $10,000 higher than the system we put in, and with all of the other efficiency upgrades, the payback would have been very long (20+ years).  Something to keep in mind - the more things you do to make your house more efficient, like upgraded insulation, air sealing, etc., the longer the payback is going to be for geothermal.   Let's say that you have a very tight, efficient home.  If the average heating bill would be $250/month with a high efficiency gas furnace (just throwing out a number) - even if geothermal saved you 50% every month, that's $125/month - $1500/year.  If it costs you an extra $15,000 to install the system, that's a 10 year payback.  And those numbers are very aggressive, in my opinion.   

One last thing - not sure what stage you're at, but you may want to consider other options besides spray foaming the entire wall cavities.  From everything I've seen/heard/read, that tends to not be the most cost-effective method.  There are numerous combinations of materials that can be used to give comparable performance for less cost.   If you're not familiar with "thermal bridging" / "thermal short circuits", do some research on that topic.  I think you'll find that some foam board "outsulation" along with other insulation in the wall cavities may be more cost effective.

I have heard that in the next 5 or 10 years they are going to come out with an air conditioning system that is 50% to 90% more efficient than the current design.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/06/100621071943.htm

But what to do until then? In a cooling climate like SC it might be a good thing to look into. Either way insulation is key and should never be skimped on. Sheet foam is cheaper than spray. 50% less but then you'll need do do some labor and closed cell spray is nice because it's also like glue.