Does the 2006 IRC allow for Pole-Building houses? When I was looking at Chapter 4 of the IRC, I would say "no" because of the footing requirement for all perimeter walls and the frost protection requirement, 42" here in MN.

Interesting that the IRC spends page after page of details about some systems and completely ignores others. There is no mention of post frame construction, however, the ubiquitous 'other foundation systems' shows up several times in the literature.
I was always taught that if the bottom of the posts were below the frost line, then you were good. It works on barns, why not for houses.
It seems I have heard that the National Frame Builders Association was working on getting more specific information about post building into the IRC, but I don't know how successful they have been.

if the post footing is at least 42" below..... then that is the footing , I don't see why it wouldn't be allowed , I saw many pole building homes built in PA. during the late 70's

I see the problem, both in the IRC and the method of construction, as a continuous footing is required for all exterior walls and all footings require frost protection. So the posts and roof are fine, but the walls, sit on the floating slab floor, which can heave and would be cold. The customer called the knowledgeable non-municipal owned building officials and they said as much.

Maybe the would be a good idea in the south, but not here in Minnesota.

Brad;

the exterior perimeter consists of poles, girts and sheathing, I am not sure it would qualify as a wall by code definition? The area of Pennsylvania where my pole building experience was from NW, the frost line was probably about 36", I think the warmth from the interior keeps the slab edge from heaving.

I have also seenresidential  pole structures with a crawlspace and perimeter skirt board

Brad,
Your walls do not have to set on a slab. Their weight can be carried by the posts, as Chris mentioned. We have built homes with crawlspace floor systems, where the entire load of the structure is carried by the posts. Should you choose to use a slab floor, it can be isolated from the walls.

But then what? some kind of slip joint between the floor and the wall portion supported by posts? I don't think so, this ain't Kentucky! Frosting heaving here in Minnesota is no small matter, even though I quit consulting full time I look at more problems every year associated with it. Just banter.

Why not use a type of Alaskan slab so the floor will be insulated? Of course that leads to the question of why put the poles in holes; why not set everything on the slab?

Then just put a wooden floor system in place and let the ground heave to its hearts content.
Oh, and thank goodness KY isn't MN. If it was, I would have to join Chris in FL. I hate cold weather.

With a sufficient structural slab, it would probably work. But the 2006 IRC does not accept it. The purpose of the pole building is to be inexpensive, but if the cheap route doesn't work, I think a perimeter frost wall is the best option. That is the what I am doing on my own slab on grade house.

Posted By ICFconstruction on 28 Oct 2010 10:40 PM
Does the 2006 IRC allow for Pole-Building houses? When I was looking at Chapter 4 of the IRC, I would say "no" because of the footing requirement for all perimeter walls and the frost protection requirement, 42" here in MN.

I'm not sure if we're talking about the same thing here, but this is something I've thought about.  Commercial buildings are generally built with a steel "skeleton" & a skin.  From what I've seen, there may be 10 feet between vertical supports.  With thermal bridging being such a big issue in traditional builds, it seems like that could be a good option for residential builds, but I've never seen it done - so I'm assuming there must be a reason..

The only common residential comparison is probably timber framing, but the downside is the cost. Having been a timber framer in years past I appreciate the craftsmanship, but have often thought there needs to be a simpler, less expensive alternative such as a pole barn style building. Of course stress skin/ SIPS is an excellent product which should be part of this discussion, but again we run into the cost issue. Some combination of simplified timber framing plus insulationg with recycled foam?

Posted By Bob I on 02 Nov 2010 08:43 AM
The only common residential comparison is probably timber framing, but the downside is the cost. Having been a timber framer in years past I appreciate the craftsmanship, but have often thought there needs to be a simpler, less expensive alternative such as a pole barn style building. Of course stress skin/ SIPS is an excellent product which should be part of this discussion, but again we run into the cost issue. Some combination of simplified timber framing plus insulationg with recycled foam?

I'm assuming that if it were a viable option, someone would be doing it.  Dumb question, but is it the timbers that make timber framing expensive?   Would using steel instead of wood make it more cost effective?

I doubt it, when we incorporate steel beams or columns, it is much more expensive than steel reinforced concrete.

Rough beams are pretty cheap, comparitively. The cost is in the labor to finish the beams, cut the joinery, mortise the braces, assemble the whole thing etc. There were two companies in New England who were selling post & beam/stress skin homes in the 80's which were nailed together; very little "joinery", so they were cheaper, but as so often happens they were cutting a few too many corners. Lots of success & sales until the problems caught up, then bankrupcy.

I can see the above ground structure being strong, stable and energy efficient. But then what about the floor? And the floor to wall connection?

I think the most cost affective, value, includes a perimeter frost wall. At least where the ground freezes.

Posted By ICFconstruction on 31 Oct 2010 06:25 PM
With a sufficient structural slab, it would probably work. But the 2006 IRC does not accept it. The purpose of the pole building is to be inexpensive, but if the cheap route doesn't work, I think a perimeter frost wall is the best option. That is the what I am doing on my own slab on grade house.

Brad;

I agree that the intent of a pole building is to be less expensive, but I believe the IRC does allow the structures and they have been successfully built in cold climates, I have personal knowlege of them being built as far north as upstate NY. The warmth from the interior and the thermal mass of the slab prevents any heaving at the perimeter. I don't advocate a pole building for a residence in any climate (just sayin' its do-able) ........as conventional slab on grade construction is just as competitive.

The 2006 IRC would allow it only on a very loose interpretation. However our local independent building official and I agree the IRC does not allow pole frame construction. It should, but does not.

We should be able to build and live in what we want.

Brad;

not sure what you mean that ir would allow on a loose interpretion, but would not allow it.

I think that as an alternative building method and a signed and sealed set of plans, the BO has no choice but to accept it , just as they allow "earth ships" that are closer to a cave dwelling than anything desribed in the IRC

To be allowed, the requirement for a continuous frost wall under all outside walls would have to be overlooked.