Earth sheltered? Earth bermed? or other??
Last Post 30 Jun 2011 09:44 PM by Afton Allen. 40 Replies.
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twogun544User is Offline
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21 Nov 2010 07:48 PM
I am a prospective DIY homebuilder.  I have never built a complete house before just been slave labor for my dad and grandad.  I am considering how to build the most long term economically efficient home that I can.  Part of my calculus is that energy costs will continue their upward trajectory and possibly quite substantially.  I thought that one easy way to gain energy efficiencies in the home I am planning is to bury it or build an earth berm around it so that I can take advantage of the natural temp underground.  I will be building this home in North Western Tennessee so I expect the cooling problem to be greater than heating.  My considerations were to use one of the Terradome type structures or to use ICFs with a Lite-Deck type of roof.  My initial decision was in favor of the ICF option (at least for the walls) based back of napkin cost .  The structure I designed is rather simple (four corners), I cant see why it would be expensive to build but some (not professionals) have told me that it would be.   It seems to me to be just a basement with a roof.   I have designed floor plan that takes into account egress and light to bedrooms/living room etc.  The house is expected to be 2500-3000 square feet (I have designed floor plans for both).  I am leaning toward a single sloped roof.  Have any of you all on this forum had experience with what I am trying to build and if so could you please comment.  If there are other details that I need to specify or think about let me know. 

Thanks
Chuck


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21 Nov 2010 10:12 PM
Earth sheltered homes were popular during the 70's energy crisis, but with today's building methods, earth sheltered is not necessary to be energy efficient. The down-sides to that method are egress, natural light and water proofing. I started ICF construction because it is the best way to build a strong, long lasting, energy efficient structure. ICF walls are a good value but ICF roofs are expensive and ICF floor systems can go either way depending on the application. Your shed style roof would be the most efficient way of doing an ICF roof but is still fairly labor intensive.


Brad Kvanbek - ICFconstruction.net
twogun544User is Offline
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21 Nov 2010 11:08 PM
Brad -

I appreciate the info. To be clear, are you saying is that earth sheltering has only a marginal improvement in energy efficiency compared to its price/down-sides or that ICF construction can equal earth sheltering in energy efficiency? Would you recommend berming earth around the house regardless the roof option or is earth berming also not significantly better than ICF only?

Thanks,
Chuck


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22 Nov 2010 07:23 AM
First eliminating air leaks in any structure reduces energy use. Consider a monolithic concrete structure and rather than build one large square foot home build modules each module energized seperatily from the others.
SafeDomes.com


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22 Nov 2010 07:46 AM
It is not necessary to earth berm to get an energy efficient home. But if works for your property and you would like to earth berm, do it. Just build ICF walls. If it is worth the extra money for you to have the strength of a concrete roof, use ICFs.With extreme earth berming or a concrete roof you will need to do 8" ICF walls which will add about $1 sf.
We just did a complex BuildDeck floor system, but it went well.


Brad Kvanbek - ICFconstruction.net
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22 Nov 2010 08:44 AM
I think there are two major points to consider. Does your lot lend itself to an earth bermed home, and does that style work for you and your family? If both answers are yes, then build it. Earth sheltering is always a positive from energy efficiency and protection from inclement weather. Definitely use ICFs walls, and if the roof is above grade, use SIPS for that. Considering your geography, a totally underground house might not be wise, economically. The payback for the additional costs would dozens of years. By the way where in NW TN are you located?


Wes Shelby<br>Design Systems Group<br>Murray KY<br>[email protected]
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22 Nov 2010 03:50 PM

Chuck,

I like Terra-Dome homes but be aware that in order to keep the domed ceiling one has to bury utilities under the slab.  Nothing wrong with this except the HVAC lines having to be waterproof will cost more plus one must allow more space under the slab for the larger lines.  More space can be achieved by making the walls taller and then backfilling under the slab.  Another thing to keep in mind is that it is easier to waterproof penetrations through the concrete shell if all of the penetrations are through the slab instead of the walls or roof. 

A flat or sloped concrete roof will have to be thicker and more reinforced since it will not be in compression like the dome.

Contrary to what people may think, an earthsheltered home does not have to feel cave-like.  Either build at the crest of a hill and have daylight on both front and back or build into the hill with shallow modules such as Terra-Dome's 24' or 28' depths.  Shallow depths like this allows more windows on the South side for egress and light.  For your location, regardless of the type of house you build, be sure to minimize the windows on the East and West and size the soffit correctly for the Southern windows.


By the way, A Terra-Dome home is being built in my area.



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CURTIS596User is Offline
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22 Nov 2010 04:13 PM
Like you, I also want an earth sheltered home and have decided to go the bermed route with a traditional roof (sips). I have been following a number of builds on the web so I started a blog to keep track of them all. Feel free to check it out. http://www.earthsheltered.org


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22 Nov 2010 08:54 PM
Thanks all for the info/expertise.  I am finding out that there are a lot of questions that I hadn't thought of.

Wes - I am building in Carroll County, TN near Huntingdon.  I'm about an hour south of Murray.  My wife and I have toured a home in Missouri that was built by Terra-dome, and we found that it was not cavelike at all due to the high ceilings and reflective light.  I beleive that I can acheive some of the same effects by having a sloped roof and windows just above the earthline/below the roofline to allow light in from the back earth bermed side as well as the front.   I think that I can find an appropriate site on my farm to put the house that will take advantage of Southern exposure.   I was debating how important is the Southern exposure given the relatively warm climate where I am building but given that several folks have mentioned it, I will look more closely at my prospective site and see if I can turn the house more to the south than I had previously planned.  My current site is not the best one for southern exposure but I had wanted to use one of the existing wells on the property rather than dig a new one. 

Alton - Your soffit comment intrigued me.  What do you mean by "size the soffitt correctly?"  I don't want to bog you down with neophyte questions; is there a website that I can go to that describes what you are talking about? 

  
Chuck


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22 Nov 2010 10:04 PM
Posted By twogun544 on 21 Nov 2010 07:48 PM
.  If there are other details that I need to specify or think about let me know. 

Thanks
Chuck
If you are contemplating wood based SIPs for the roof make sure it is high enough from earth, or use non-wood SIPs  if clearance is problematic



Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br />
twogun544User is Offline
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22 Nov 2010 10:35 PM

Chris - Thanks for that tip.  How much more do Steel SIPS cost compared to wood?  Is the exterior steel the roof covering or would the steel have to be covered by shingles or metal etc. 



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22 Nov 2010 10:48 PM

Chuck,

First of all, for your location you really need to face the earth-sheltered home to the South.  If you were in Orlando FL or further South I would recommend that the glass wall face North since cooling would be much more important than heating.

Idealy, the back of the home should be facing True North instead of Magnetic North.  (According to this link http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomagmode...eclination    the declination is 1 degree and 56 minutes W changing by 6 minutes West a year.  This is so close to True North that Magnetic (compass) North is quite acceptable for orienting a home for passive solar.)

The sun being lower in the sky in the winter will come in under the soffit and contribute to the heating of your home.  A horizontal shader (soffit, overhang, etc.) will block the summer sun that is higher in the sky.  However, for this to work well, the horizontal shader has to be sized at least according to the latitude, height the shader is above the window, and height of the window.  For instance, a shader placed too high or not wide enough will not shade the bottom part of the window. 

A sun table like the one used by the School of Architecture at Auburn University allows one to use a scaled model to determine the width of shader necessary to protect the house from the hot summer sun and yet still allow passive solar heating in the winter for latitude and longitude.  Some schools near you may have a sun table.  If not, then my guess for a normal height wall (9' ceiling) for your latitude with a 6' tall window would require a soffit 32 to 36 inches wide.  In my opinion, it is better to have a shader slightly too wide than too narrow.  An overhang or shader too wide for the site will reduce solar gain at the beginning and ending of the heating season.  An overhang too narrow will allow over heatig during this period.

Homes that face South with the narrow overhangs of today really add to the cooling load.  By the way, South facing windows properly shaded from the summer sun should be the type that allows the sun to store heat in insulated thermal mass inside the home.

Here is one link to start your study:  http://www.energysavers.gov/your_ho...opic=10280  Notice the difference in sun angles for summer and winter.



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23 Nov 2010 06:21 AM
Posted By twogun544 on 22 Nov 2010 10:35 PM

Chris - Thanks for that tip.  How much more do Steel SIPS cost compared to wood?  Is the exterior steel the roof covering or would the steel have to be covered by shingles or metal etc. 

all things considered steel is less, especially where there are no valleys, the roof may be left as a bare white steel roof.

Things to consider............... 1/2 the weight and no crane needed, the underside is already prefinished creating a white soffit on overhangs and porches, no splines needed with a T&G friction fit connection, no joint fasteners requires - simply push panels together and fasten ridge and wall connections.



Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br />
twogun544User is Offline
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23 Nov 2010 07:03 AM
Hmmm I might have to give you a call...Do you distribute to TN?


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23 Nov 2010 07:30 AM
Posted By twogun544 on 23 Nov 2010 07:03 AM
Hmmm I might have to give you a call...Do you distribute to TN?


Absolutely


Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br />
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23 Nov 2010 08:10 AM
Chuck,
I was born and raised in northern Carroll county near Mixie. Went to high school in Huntingdon. Still have cousins living down near Trezevant. Where is your farm located?
As to some of your questions, Alton's answer about positioning is basically correct. However, having lived in this climate a LONG time, I'm not sure that facing the house true south is the best answer. I am inclined to rotate the house a little to the east of south. This allows a little more protection from the westerly winter winds and also from the spring storms. I don't have any empirical evidence to base this on, just gut feelings and experiences.
Contact me directly if you have specific questions I can help you with.


Wes Shelby<br>Design Systems Group<br>Murray KY<br>[email protected]
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23 Nov 2010 09:26 PM

Wes,

You may be right.  Microclimate overrides macro.  Personal knowledge of an area's weather should be utilized.



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23 Nov 2010 10:36 PM
Wes -

My farm is just south of Mclemoresville on Terry Road.  I used to go through Trezevant when I would come from Ft Campbell to hunt/visit/work at the property.  I will definitely contact you via email ref this house.  My biggest concern about building a house of this type was finding some professionals in my area that could help with consultation.



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10 Dec 2010 11:12 AM
At this late point I will offer one more additional option. You are already familiar with the advantages of domes. An airformed dome, like a Monolithic, can be cheaper than ICF when used in an earth-shelter. Review a site called BYOH.com (be your own contractor, save 25%) and use the methodology research to get sub-contractor bids on shotcrete and rebar placement. By subbing out, my bid prices were much less than specialized contractors quoted. Consider "Rock-rebar" in lieu of steel. For a 50 foot dome, 3200 sf space, my napkin cost, well, Excell spreadsheet from feasibility bids, for the frame is $34,300. This does not include slab, windows, doors, but does include all sub labor, and I'm not doing any. The shotcrtete guy has ballparked it at $400/yd including labor and concrete, set up and safety equipment. He has done commercial dome before. This does not include site prep, slab, water, etc; I'm trying for apples to apples, cost of framing, walls, roof only comparison. The main floor level is 1900 sf; I have not added cost to build second level floor in the above figure.

The dome can easily carry the earth load to add additional thermal mass. Use a PAHS umbrella for insulation, being careful to avoid thermal breaks. Seal doors, penetrations, and windows well. Airtightness is easy; this is a one piece concrete dome.


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13 Dec 2010 01:27 PM
I've had a PH consultant at my MN terraced property. It's got about a 20' drop from one level to another and is south facing towards a lake. thought it'd be great for passive solar build but it seems that PH will want the earth bermed walls insulated from the earth. I probably would have been better off getting a flatter lot. Is it generally more expensive to build earth bermed walls (basement) vs. above ground exposed construction?

I'm trying to figure out should I build more exposed wall area following the contour of the hill/drop or build into the hill more? South facing lake lot in MN.


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