Sealed Crawlspace and HRV
Last Post 24 May 2011 03:22 PM by Dana1. 6 Replies.
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cschmelzUser is Offline
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06 May 2011 05:50 PM
I've gone to sealing the (small) vents in my crawlspace, beginning this last winter. The crawlspace is over dirt, but the dirt is covered 100% with good, overlapping sheets of plastic. 

I went with the sealed setup finally as the floor above the large crawlspace (3ft high, 50x30ft area) is not insulated, and after reading the opinions it seemed insulating this floor was full of peril.  I also happen to live in EASTERN Washington state where it is very dry (8 inches rain a year) so moisture tends to be a minor issue.  I'd like to move some area thorough this area and it seemed it would be simple to install a low cost HRV to provide some airflow through the space.

Thoughts?
wesUser is Offline
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06 May 2011 08:40 PM
Does your HVAC ductwork run through the crawlspace? If so, put a small vent in a duct near one end of the crawl.
Set up your HRV at the opposite end of the crawl. Hook the intake lines to your HVAC return air duct, dump the exhaust air from the crawl outside. This creates a 'semi' conditioned space, and should keep the humidity in the crawl near your indoor levels. Better yet, if the budget would allow, insulate the crawl walls and make it a completely conditioned space.
Wes Shelby<br>Design Systems Group<br>Murray KY<br>[email protected]
jonrUser is Offline
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07 May 2011 09:06 AM
I would monitor the crawlspace humidity. I know someone who didn't and it caused major mold problems.
Dana1User is Offline
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11 May 2011 01:53 PM
For less than the cost of an HRV you can probably insulate the walls of the crawl with 2-4" inches of EPS (or 2" of EPS +a ministudwall with unfaced batts), and the humidity/condensation issues would be even LESS likely even without ventilating it. Beyond just keeping the crawlspace above the dew point of the conditioned-space air in winter, you'd be taking a decent chunk off the energy bills.

There is a longer term economic argument for 2-3" of EPS (R8-12) on the crawlspace floor covered with a 1-2" not-structural concrete rat-slab, as well as ~ R15-20 on the crawlspace walls. A sealed conditioned crawlspace is just a mini-basement. (2" of EPS + 2x4 studwall w/R13 fiberglass comes it at ~ R18 for whole-wall R.)

See: http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/reports/rr-1003-building-america-high-r-foundations-case-study-analysis

and

http://www.buildingscience.com/docu...e_edit.pdf

and

http://www.buildingscience.com/docu...mate-zones
(See the R-table on p.10- you're in the zone 5/6. Note those are whole-assembly R values, not center-cavity R.)

With the crawlspace walls sealed and insulated you 'd be able to run a small fan on a n interval timer to ventilate it with the conditioned space air, or just place a few floor grills on the first floor to allow air-currents within the house to do a random exchange- it doesn't take much air exchange to keep buildup of gases under control.

BTW: For climate data & ground temp info purposes, what's your ZIP? (A few decades ago I lived briefly in heart of the Columbia Basin- 98823 and summered a time or two 99140 back in the '90s.)
cschmelzUser is Offline
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24 May 2011 01:20 PM
Posted By Dana1 on 11 May 2011 01:53 PM


BTW: For climate data & ground temp info purposes, what's your ZIP? (A few decades ago I lived briefly in heart of the Columbia Basin- 98823 and summered a time or two 99140 back in the '90s.)

98942 for Zip

I'm thinking that for the solutions given (create hole is far duct in crawlspace, then exhaust crawlspace via HRV/ERV and intake to return air) that an ERV would be better than an HRV as we are VERY dry most of the summer (dew points <20dF) and in winter I am using a Honeywell TrueSteam humidifier to make the house more comfortable (or baseline rel humids inside are 25% or so).

For straight ventilating the crawlspace it would make more sense to use a HRV to remove humidity as effectively as possible, right?


Chloe TaylorUser is Offline
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24 May 2011 02:47 PM
Posted By jonr on 07 May 2011 09:06 AM
I would monitor the crawlspace humidity. I know someone who didn't and it caused major mold problems.

Nice point, surely would be agreeing as to what all you mentioned in you comment.....  
<a href="http://www.capitalsteelbuildings.co.uk">Commercial Buildings for Sale</a>
Dana1User is Offline
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24 May 2011 03:22 PM
Posted By cschmelz on 24 May 2011 01:20 PM
Posted By Dana1 on 11 May 2011 01:53 PM


BTW: For climate data & ground temp info purposes, what's your ZIP? (A few decades ago I lived briefly in heart of the Columbia Basin- 98823 and summered a time or two 99140 back in the '90s.)

98942 for Zip

I'm thinking that for the solutions given (create hole is far duct in crawlspace, then exhaust crawlspace via HRV/ERV and intake to return air) that an ERV would be better than an HRV as we are VERY dry most of the summer (dew points <20dF) and in winter I am using a Honeywell TrueSteam humidifier to make the house more comfortable (or baseline rel humids inside are 25% or so).

For straight ventilating the crawlspace it would make more sense to use a HRV to remove humidity as effectively as possible, right?



With a ground vapor retarder and foam insulated crawlspace walls the absolute humidity (dew point) of the crawlspace air will be exactly that of the conditioned space air. But without insulation on the floor of the crawlspace it'll run cooler than the conditioned space, and closer to the dew point.

Deep well temps (except on volcanic anomalies) in your area run in the low 50s, and at ~1500' in Selah it'll be seasonally cooler than that.  Putting going up to R15 on the walls (1" xps  or closed cell foam on the walls, + mini-studwall with unfaced R13 batts), and 2-2.5" of EPS  (R8-R10  bead-board) over your ground vapor retarder, protected by a 1.5-2" rough non-structural concrete "rat slab" over it would have long term benefit on energy use, while raising the temp of the crawl giving you plenty of margin on dew point issues.

If your baseline RH is 25% in winter,  a round of whole-house air-sealing (half of which may well be the band joist & foundation sill & vents in the crawl, would likely raise that to over 35%, and you could turn the TrueSteam off.  In a typical year the binned-hourly mean (not hi or low) temps for January winter temp in Selah is in the mid-20s but some years are can be significantly cooler than that. The higher you raise the RH, the more mold potential you will have in the studwalls.  The dew point of 70F 35% RH air is ~40F, so any wood in the walls that averages below 40F for a month is susceptible.  The dew point of 70F 50% RH air is 51F, which brings the susceptible wood an inch closer to the interior. It's very important to make the interior as air-tight as possible (more important than vapor barriers) if you're going to be running over 35%.  Health professionals place the human-health optimal zone between 30-50%, so there's really little health benefit to going much higher than 30%, and the comfort level at 35% is MUCH better than at 25%, yet the difference in comfort between 35-50% is barely perceptible.

Your average wintertime outdoor dew points are  about 20-22F, which is more humid than mine (which average ~12F), yet in a not-super-tight  house it coasts along at ~35% without adding humidity, only dropping below that during extended cold spells (multiple consecutive days with high temps below 10F).  This is with 3 people showering cooking, breathing etc.  For a 1-person household the RH would surely be lower.  If you can seal up your house well enough that its about or under 2.5 air exchanges at 50pascals (a standard blower door test) your natural ventilation will be sufficient to be healthy, but the indoor relative humidity will rise.  Then you can control the HRV via dehumidistat to lower the RH to under 40% should it start to rise, and set the TrueSteam to blast away only when it drops below 30%.    If you run the HRV with a timer, adjusting the duty cycle downward in winter is an effective way to maintain a minimum RH without having to add humidity.

ERVs make a lot more sense in areas with high latent air conditioning loads- your problem is the opposite.  An ERV would allow you to run higher ventilation rates without overdrying, but air-sealing the house would be over all a better approach, for both the structure and the humans within.


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