insulating walls in zone 7 with rigid, spray and cellulose
Last Post 18 Oct 2014 09:53 AM by wtkolb. 5 Replies.
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wtkolbUser is Offline
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13 Oct 2014 09:22 PM
We are building a year-round home in northern Wisconsin.  We have an architect that has designed our home and plans.  The walls are built as described below.    If I look at this,  it would appear that moisture will escape in and out from the rigid foam and the spray foam.  Does this like a good build.

Gyp board
cellulose or other between 2x6
minimum 1.5" closed cell foam
Rigid Foam minimum 1-2 " ( applied to exterior of studs)
OSB over rigid foam
Tyvek or other
I will assume some space or screen after tyvek
LP siding, Cedar and Stone

Dana1User is Offline
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14 Oct 2014 03:07 PM
Is the 1.5" of ccSPF on the interior side of the sheathing? (Making the 5.5" of cavity fill 4" of fiber, 1.5" of ccSPF?)

The vapor permeance of 1.5" of closed cell foam is about 0.7-1 perm, which is semi-impermeable. it would be good if the exterior foam had a vapor permeance of 1 or better, so that the sheathing can dry toward the exterior. If you went with 2" of 1.5lb density (Type-II) EPS you'd have a vapor permeance of about 1.5, which is just about where you want to be. The R-value of that 2" would be R8.4 for lableing purposes, but since it's performance increases to about R4.7/inch when the temperature through the layer is 25F, your mid winter performance will be better than 9. Polyiso would have a higher labeled R, but much lower mid-winter performance in this stackup.

XPS would only be about 0.5 perms @ 2", which is on the low side, and it will slowly drop in performance over time until it ends up at about the same level as EPS. (It's higher R/inch is due to it's HFC134a blowing agent, which has a very high global warming potential, 1400x that of CO2, and 200x that of the pentane used for blowing EPS.)

At 1.5" you're looking at about R10 for the ccSPF, which isn't quite enough dew point control for the fiber layer on it's own, but with an inch of ANY exterior foam you would have some margin. With 4" of fiber it's slightly deeper than a 2x4 cavity, which WOULD be OK with only R10:

http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/icod/irc/2012/icod_irc_2012_7_sec002_par025.htm

For even better outward drying you could go with 2" of rigid rock wool (eg Roxul Comfortboard), which is also completely fireproof and more insect resistant than foam insulation.

The ccSPF also uses a high global warming potential blowing agent (HFC245fa ~1000x CO2), but in 1-2" layers the damage is somewhat limited, and you're gaining some resilience from the vapor retardency when it's placed on the interior side of the sheathing in your climate.

If you dropped back to 2x4/cellulose with 3-4" of rigid rock wool on the exterior you'd have even higher drying rates, and no dew point issues. After thermal bridging the "whole-wall-R" of your stackup with 2" of exterior EPS or rock wool comes in at about R22-R23, which is also where you would be with a 2x4-cellulose +3" of exterior rock wool (or EPS) solution. But the sheathing would be that much more inside the thermal boundary, running much warmer and drier.


wtkolbUser is Offline
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17 Oct 2014 09:44 AM
Okay, lets see if I can answer correctly.

1)  Yes,  the closed cell foam would be on the interior side  located between the 2x6 studs.  So if we do 1.5" of ccf we would have 4" available for cellulose or rock wool or glass.  I am not a fan of glass so was thinking filling the cavity with cellulose.

2)  The 1 1/2 rigid foam would be the first layer on the exterior side of the studs followed by the OSB or plywood and then tyvek wrap.  If I read your comment correctly, you say maybe switch from rigid foam to rigid rock wool. 

3)  We discussed 3" of rigid foam on the exterior but the builder was very concerned about the windows and boxing and stability.  So we decided to go with what the architect designed based upon his expertise. 

As much research as I have done I am still somewhat confused or concerned.  Had I had a SIP home builder available I may have gone that route but too late.  Foundation is being poured today.  The way I see the designed structure,  would we not have drying in two directions.  From the Rigid foam out and from the CCF in  ?    Our iterior walls will be sheetrock or wood and we will have a HRV system to exchange air which should also assist with pulling moisture out. 

Thanks for your input

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17 Oct 2014 12:24 PM
I would at least look into using either plywood at the corners or diagonal metal straps (for racking) and then no wood sheathing elsewhere. If you use wood sheathing everywhere, then I'd put EPS to the outside of it.
wtkolbUser is Offline
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18 Oct 2014 08:55 AM
I was thinking better to use XPS then EPS for R-Value and perm if that makes a difference.
wtkolbUser is Offline
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18 Oct 2014 09:53 AM
Disregard my last comment on eps / xps. I read your comments again.
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