Attached to this message are my floor plans. As stated elsewhere in other forums, my project information is as follows: 3500 finished sq. feet above ground, approx. 1200 unfinished sq. feet below ground with full walkout basement. I am looking at doing ICF’s for the basement (below ground) walls and using ICF’s for the main and second floor level (above ground) walls and raised heel trusses for the roof. The project location is approximately 30 miles west of Minneapolis, MN, I am trying to do this (hopefully with a geothermal system) for about $400,000. Does this seem like a realistic and feasible number? (I already own the property and have a pre-existing 4 ½ stall garage with loft).

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Sure its realistic, as long as you are supplying all the labor at no charge. Have you put together costs for all the phases?

Seriously, though, I'd guess a realistic and feasible number for this luxury house with the upgrades to ICF and geothermal would be somewhat north of $800,000.

I'm currently building a story and a half in Tennessee (4000sq ft- in addition to 950sq ft unfinished attic) for under $100 a sq ft..... with ICF on first floor (we only have a bonus room above the garage with wood framing). We're also installing geothermal. The geo (split) system is $22K and the ICF was $12sq ft (that's a finished ICF product); tankless gas water heaters too. We aren't doing a lot of high end finishes or trim; we're putting in Brazilian Chestnut floors and Kohler fixtures...other than that it's a simple home! It's possible if you really watch the dollars!!!! When we're done it'll look like a Greek Revival:)

twin1chrissy,

Thank you for the insight into your build. I would like to find out what the average cost/finished sq. foot is going for in the upper midwest area. I understand that cost/sq. foot is a very unreliable way to price a home, however it does provide a good cost comparision. I am looking at doing a lot of the finish work myself on the home. I want to get the things that can't be done later (like the foundation, layout, plumbing) completed the way I want them done and then come back later and do some or most of the finish work like trim, crown molding, etc., myself.

Anyone else who can provide some insight to thier cost/finihsed sq. ft. would be appreciated.

OK.   You probably are not going to like my comments, but here goes.

First I think it would be very difficult to build this house for 400 K even if you were acting as the general contractor and just subbing out most of the work.  You should think in terms of total cost of ownership over a 10 year time period not just the initial cost to build anyway.  Initial questions about cost can be roughed out by talking to the subs in the area about stuff.  This is what I would start to ask?

Depending on the location of the house vs power and utility locations, your costs for that may be considerable.  Do you bring them in above ground or in conduit.  Do you need to drill a well?

Get a quote for a standard package of well drilling and pump and pressure tank installed.

Get quotes for a complete sitework package. To include clearing, stump removal, driveway installation, rough excavation any trenching and installation of the septic system. Include footing drains, stone under the slab.    As well as final grading, seeding, erosion control measures, wetland mitigation, etc

Where I live this house would count as either a 6 or 7 bedroom house for the purposes of septic design which would end up as a 25-50K septic system.  Or do you have sewer capability?  What is the cost to tie in? How long is the driveway?  Paved or gravel?  Is it a wet area and do you need geotextile mat? How much fill do you need to bring in.

Prices for sitework can vary all over the map.  In order to make sense of them and compare apples to apples, you need to be very, very detailed with what your specifications are.

Next find yourself several subs that are experienced ICF builders.  Get them to quote you an icf shell, roof and interior framing package.

Basically this would be foundation, floors, walls, trusses roofing as well as interior framing.  Consider including windows and doors and siding in this quote so the whole exterior shell comes from one sub

Next get separate quotes for; electrical, plumbing, HVAC,  Insulation and drywall and painting.

Consider using a quality tile installer and have him back check the floor framing plan to insure it meets his needs.

Lastly you will need a trim carpenter to hang doors, install vanities and cabinetry and do the built-ins in the mudroom

Remember, to move in you probably only  need 1 functional bathroom, a functional kitchen and one bedroom finished.

Again you need to be be very specific on what you want to get accurate quotes

 

Now for the critique of the plan itself.  You can ignore my comments if you can’t change the design.  This is an expensive house to build largely because of the layout.  Since you appear to be  trying to build it for a very small budget, here are things to consider.  You plumbing is very decentralized.  You are going to have pipes everywhere. The bath for bedrooms 3-4 would probably have to come down the outside wall which is dangerous in your climate and will transmit noise into the family room unless you use CI pipe for the vertical part. Same applies to the bathroom over the study.

It will be hard to exhaust the kitchen stove when it is on an island unless you can go straight up  which you can’t because it is under the master bedroom, move it to the outside wall.  Not a lot of natural light in the bathrooms, I would add tubular skylights to add some daylight to them.

I think If you want to build a quality house for 400 K as opposed to a house that you cut corners everywhere to bring it in budget, you should consider a different design. If you want to increase your budget by a factor of 2-3 you could build a stunning house with this floorplan and have it built correctly. 

 

Eric

twin1chrissy
I'm amazed you can build that type of house for that budget; prices must be substantially lower in Tenn. The geothermal system - how big a system is that? The $22k includes the wells, pumps, heat exchanger, duct system and all the other work? Are you supplying the labor & doing the building or are you the GC and you have written quotes for all the work?

Eric, I do appreciate your comments. The site where the home is going to be built already has pre-existing home which will be torn down and replaced with this one. Driveway, drainage, utility runs, septic, etc. are all currently capable of handling this size home and only need to be disconnected and re-connected to the new one (I know, not quite as easy as it sounds). I was planning on an owner-builder approach to this project. I know that going to a custom home builder would push this home way out of my budget and also plan on using some friends who are currently trades people. As far as plumbing: I’m going to be using PEX pipe throughout most of the home, so that may help with some of the noise and complexity of the design. I am also planning on using open web joists to aid in the running of electrical and plumbing. The exhaust for the kitchen is an excellent point which I guess I hadn’t thought of until you mentioned it, so thank you. You are correct that I may have to re-consider where the cooktop goes. I had planned on adding 5 or so tubular skylights to the second floor in the bathrooms and then on the 2 story breakfast/foyer to capture some natural light. Like I said, I do appreciate your comments and observations. I fully realize that hitting the $400,000 mark will be a challenge, but I’m hoping that it can be done. To complete the home on budget, I would have to build for $115/finished sq. ft. or less. What is the average cost/finished sq. ft. going for in the NE portion of the country right now?

That was an awesome reply.

I can’t really give you pricing info for MN.

The first recommendation I have it to subscribe to DWELL magazine.  If you want ideas for cost savings and alternative materials and methodologies and intelligent architecture that is a good place to start.

The house I just built was 165$/ ft^2 not including the lot.   Much of this is due to builidng in a rural area ~ 500 ft off a town road.  If you take away utility, septic, driveway, and excavation costs it was around 120$ ft^2.  This includes the building loan costs as well as permitting, fees and inspections, insurance, but zero cost for most of the labor from the foundation on, no overhead on my part, no workmans comp coverage.  I use this fee basis because it is not what a builder would charge you, but you as the GC if you have a reasonable knowledge of the building trades.

This same house without  the solar components,  using builders grade  double hung double pane windows and a cheap  boiler and electric hot water heater, standard foundation, no outsulation, builder grade plumbing fixtures would run around 90-100$ ft^2 (again sans labor, land costs etc.) 

For the house itself, I subbed out the   ICF foundation, some of the insulation, sheetrock and the glass shower enclosure.  I did the carpentry, rough and trim, roofing, plumbing, electrical, installed all the cabinetry and flooring and all tile.  I installed a solar airheater and solar hot water heater myself. I had some professional help from a friend installing the boiler, but installed the rest of the heating system, HRV etc  myself.

 

Now I realize all houses are tradeoffs between costs, build quality and the amount of bling in them.  Personally I build on the quality end of the spectrum, both for work done on my house and on others.  Much of the true savings occurs at the design stage. Money you save in the building by using lower quality materials often cost you more in the long run then building it correctly.

  I try to eliminate as much bling as possible and make every space multifunctional.  Any room that only has a single purpose is generally underutilized.  The other thing that is very important to keep in mind is how the house ages with the occupants and handles all eventualities.  What happens if someone in the family breaks a hip or leg and can’t make it up the stairs? Is there any good space that can be made into a bedroom on the first floor?  Is there a shower on the first floor or a wheelchair accessible toilet?

What happens if the power gets knocked out for a week in the winter?  Do you have an alternative heating system as a backup?

I think it is best to take each space individually and figure out what you need and how to accommodate it.  Try to imagine a walkthrough of the house and how it would feel/ function.

Start with the mudroom.  It is cold in MN so it might be nice to have small unheated entrance enclosure as you walk in with a second door so the wind does not blow too much cold air into the house.  Now you are in and need to take off your boots before you go into the main house. So you need a bench to sit down and a place to put your coat, car keys, set stuff down temporarily (groceries etc.).  The floor should be tiled, but after the shoes come off it will be very cold on your feet.  Do you add radiant flooring in the mudroom?  What happens when the kids come in from playing in the snow/mud and need to use the bathroom.  Will they take off their shoes before tromping to the bathroom, or should the bathroom be accessible directly off the mudroom?  Do you want them walking through the kitchen to get there?  Do you use a tile floor in the bathroom that is very mud tolerant.  How big should a mudroom be?   How do you wash the dog that just rolled in the mud and something smelly when it is winter? Do you have to go all the way up to the second floor to find a tub? 

 

The other thing that jumps out at me is the eating arrangement.  You have space for eating at the kitchen counter, breakfast nook, formal dining room, and seasonally, on the covered porch.  Do you entertain regularly? How often would you use each of the spaces for breakfast, lunch, dinner?   Usually at breakfast most people are in a rush.  That means having the cereal, bowls, glasses and fridge close to the eating area so you are not walking back and forth 5 times just to make breakfast.  Does this mean the breakfast nook gets ignored?

In the end I think that by spending the time to really think about the spaces you want and the amenities that you need you could end up with a smaller house that feels just as large and functions much better then what you have shown here. What you also do is free up a lot of money that can be used to increase the quality of the build which will make it more functional in the long run. 

Alternatively you can try to build the absolute biggest house you can for the money.  Most subs can find lots of ways to cut costs if you beat them up enough.  In a few years when your disposal breaks again, and you are sick of scrubbing the streaks off the toilet bowl because you went with cheep toilets, and the shower in the master bath is leaking into the study, this will make more sense.  This, by the way is the typical build where I live in Connecticut. 

Good Luck
eric

send a message to ICFConstruction, he is on this site, located in MN.

Minnesota is not the least expensive place to build, but I know some many reasonable, high quality subs. Your project must me in my back yard, as I am in Medina and Minnetrista, grew up in Delano.

Project i actually just a little North of Stubbs Bay in Orono. I sent you a PM

I have a lake lot on Minnetonka on Priest's bay and ICFConstruction gladly came out to take a look. He seems very knowledgeable.