With the recent hurricane disaster hitting the East Coast, there were many homes and lives destroyed. They will rebuild the homes but the question is with what?

There are many alternatives out there that are stronger and more resilient to natural disasters than wood frame. Some of them include Steel SIPs, ICF, SCIPs and a few others. Will any of these alternatives show up in the rebuilds or will the lumber industry account for 100% of the rebuild?

What say you?

Only a few people will re-build with something other than wood.  Human nature is to think that a super storm will happen only once in a lifetime.  Without a change in the building code, there will not be much difference in structure or energy savings.

Posted By Alton on 03 Nov 2012 04:47 AM
Only a few people will re-build with something other than wood.  Human nature is to think that a super storm will happen only once in a lifetime.  Without a change in the building code, there will not be much difference in structure or energy savings.

Good points. I also think that most people don't even know about other building alternatives. I believe the wood industry has a strong presence and a lot of pull to make sure that other building techniques are not introduced in such rebuilds.

Ideally all options should be put out there for the consumer and let them choose whatever method they want to choose by using factual data of each method.

First of all, the insurance companies would have to be willing to pay for the upgrade. You'd think it would be in their best interest, but I don't expect to see it. I'm wondering if people will even be allowed to rebuild in some of the fragile coastal areas. I expect to see building codes tightened up, though, like they have in FL.

It's ironic that I'm building a hurricane-proof house far from the coast after living in a poorly built house in FL for the past 32 years. Too many sleepless nights watching storm tracks, and wondering 'what if?', I guess. My inspector was surprised to see hurricane clips on my trusses.

The method of construction is largely irrelevant on the Jersey shore and on the barrier islands farther south. Houses there are built on sand literally, and the ocean is constantly rearranging it. There's a marker in Cape May NJ showing the various iterations of the shoreline over the past 150 years. Take it in, look around and ask yourself "what are these people thinking?" The shore will be rebuilt at great expense, Rebuilding the barrier sand dunes will take yearst. Residential reconstruction is a given. Federal flood insurance costs the same in Cape May as it does in Santa Fe NM.

Bear in mind that Sandy's storm surge caused the deaths and damage. Again, construction method is secondary to effective sea walls.

I just got back from westerly RI helping my sister with her beach house. Several things were apparent.
1. If your house is flooded and hit by waves, it is probably toast. Concrete foundations hit by waves crumbled
2. If you are built on pilings and stay above the waves, you are probably OK. The cabana’s in Watch hill RI are an example of this. After the storm, about 10 ft of sand is missing under the cabanna’s . They used to be 8 ft above the sand, now they are 18 ft up. The structures are fine
3. If you get flooded, but not hit by waves, the structure will survive but you will have a lot of repairs.
4. Sand moves a long way
5. You can build a home that can withstand very high wind, but not wave impact. An ICF home built on sand is still going to wash away if it gets hit with enough waves

Posted By jdebree on 03 Nov 2012 06:52 AM
First of all, the insurance companies would have to be willing to pay for the upgrade. You'd think it would be in their best interest, but I don't expect to see it. I'm wondering if people will even be allowed to rebuild in some of the fragile coastal areas. I expect to see building codes tightened up, though, like they have in FL.

It's ironic that I'm building a hurricane-proof house far from the coast after living in a poorly built house in FL for the past 32 years. Too many sleepless nights watching storm tracks, and wondering 'what if?', I guess. My inspector was surprised to see hurricane clips on my trusses.

No such thing as a hurricane proof house

If projections are right there will easily be 1m of ocean rise in the next 30-40 years (the projections are all over the map) so I'm afraid that this will happen again in the not too distant future. More frequent and damaging storms too. It's not a pretty sight.

Nature always has and always will be more powerful than mankind. As Chris mentioned, nothing is 100% hurricane proof, tornado proof, fire proof, etc. Although there are structures and building principles that can be utilized that can make structures more resistant to severe damage and do a better job of protecting the occupants. Highways, bridges, dams, highrises, etc., are constructed out of steel and concrete, two building materials that have been shown to be withstand natures forces more than any other material.

one word for short memories ........ Titanic!

I guess I should have said 'hurricane resistant'. It's like wristwatches; they're called 'water resistant', not 'water proof'.

Again- I wonder if they'll restrict rebuilding in some areas. It's been done in FL. The law says your existing home is fine, but if it blows/washes away, you can't rebuild here. I say if it's your property, go ahead and rebuild, but don't expect anyone to compensate you for your loss. They said on the news that everyone's insurance across the nation would go up so insurance companies could recoup their losses. Why? That's not fair; I'm smart enough to build on high ground, and I still have to pay for those who didn't?

NJ Gov Christie made it clear immediately that the shore is a $36B/yr tourism industry that will be rebuilt as quickly as possible,

Not to worry about insurance premiums. Homeowners policies don't cover damage by rising water, which is why FEMA runs the national flood insurance program. Underwriting experts expect price insurance to pick up $10B to $20B of Sandy's damages. The rest of the loss ($50B so far) is FEMA's and ultimately taxpayers'. Some is uninsured. The flood insurance program is up against its borrowing limit so there's a chance for needed reforms, such as charging higher premiums for high-risk areas. But Christie would be in Washington fighting it, along with Haley Barbour, Rick Scott, Donald Trump and fellow AC casino owners, The list goes on.

If your blood pressure needs a boost this morning, consider the homeowners who fought community efforts to build protective sand dunes and won. (Came here to look at the ocean, not a pile of sand.) I'm guessing theirs are now among the loudest screams for federal relief.

Posted By eric anderson on 04 Nov 2012 08:03 PM
I just got back from westerly RI helping my sister with her beach house. Several things were apparent.
1. If your house is flooded and hit by waves, it is probably toast. Concrete foundations hit by waves crumbled
2. If you are built on pilings and stay above the waves, you are probably OK. The cabana’s in Watch hill RI are an example of this. After the storm, about 10 ft of sand is missing under the cabanna’s . They used to be 8 ft above the sand, now they are 18 ft up. The structures are fine
3. If you get flooded, but not hit by waves, the structure will survive but you will have a lot of repairs.
4. Sand moves a long way
5. You can build a home that can withstand very high wind, but not wave impact. An ICF home built on sand is still going to wash away if it gets hit with enough waves

Building codes in some tsunami-risk areas are now taking a pilings + pillars approach, where first-floor walls are designed to break away without collapsing the structure in the event of a tsunami.  Nothing is 100%, but  even if the house had to be replaced the reduced risk to life is worth it.  That would definitely mitigate storm surge damage in hurricane zones too, likely leaving enough of the structure to repair.

While it's possible to build nearly-100% hurricane proof structures that are well above the storm surge, but not too many people would spring for the steel window shutters simply on aesthetic grounds. :-)   Bunker technology works, but it's doesn't always work within budgetary or aesthetic concerns.

I understand that NC recently legislated-away sea level rise in coastal areas because the construction requirements for the anticipated future sea levels was considered too onerous a burden to place on real estate developers.  We'll see how well that approach works in the coming decades... 

I suppose if gravity ever got in the way they could legislate that out too, since it's just a theory cooked up by some foreigners, after all.

I always liked Key Sailings approach. This place has stood in the path of multiple hurricanes and escapes without major damage. 12 ft high pilings and a bar on top, the shop is underneath. when a bad hurricane is coming, all the stuff from the shop gets put on trailers and hauled 40 miles inland to a warehouse. http://www.keysailing.com/Home_Page.html After the hurricane passes, all the walls are blown out of the first floor, (by design) and you are left with 5-or so feet of sand, get out the bucket loader and move the beach back where it is supposed to be, haul the rubbish to the dump, slap up new walls and back in business in 2 months after a cat 3 direct hit with minimal expense.

Posted By eric anderson on 05 Nov 2012 07:19 PM
I always liked Key Sailings approach. This place has stood in the path of multiple hurricanes and escapes without major damage. 12 ft high pilings and a bar on top, the shop is underneath. when a bad hurricane is coming, all the stuff from the shop gets put on trailers and hauled 40 miles inland to a warehouse. http://www.keysailing.com/Home_Page.html After the hurricane passes, all the walls are blown out of the first floor, (by design) and you are left with 5-or so feet of sand, get out the bucket loader and move the beach back where it is supposed to be, haul the rubbish to the dump, slap up new walls and back in business in 2 months after a cat 3 direct hit with minimal expense.

That how it works!

IIRC in Hawaii beach front high-rise condos & hotels are designed so that the ground floor (and in some instances the second floor as well) are designed to blow away in a tsunami without taking the rest of the place with it.  Replacing even a really nice lobby is a lot cheaper than replacing the building, and with all sleeping accommodations being above the anticipated high-water mark there's a safety factor even if it hits at 3AM.  The pillars can even be oval shaped to lower the height of the prow-splash & wake effects with the water both coming & going.

the other consideration is if you do build a better mousetrap but others do not and your neighborhood is destroyed. How can you move back in w/out utilities? You almost have to have your home capable of running off grid for up to several months in addition to superior design/construction.

Two weeks have gone by and still no power. Winter is upon them and they can't heat their homes. People are dumpster diving.

This is a life lesson for everyone. It doesn't take much to throw industrialized civilization into the dark ages. Our power grid system is antiquated. They are still using paper maps to find the power lines and the computer terminal serving the system is 15 years old, it still has dial-up.

This will be an interesting 4 years. Either we as a nation emerge stronger or we plunge into an abyss like Greece. Either way, one better prepare themselves with the basic essentials and the better built energy efficient home will come out ahead in terms of energy savings and long term survivability.

One thing is certain, living in rural areas does provide a safer bet over city living. When you have your own water well and septic, you don't have to rely on the city's infrastructure, which can easily collapse. When the poo hits the fan, living in the city will become a disaster, mass population in one area all vying for food and shelter will quickly turn into an episode of some apocalyptic movie. After 9/11 I remember watching the video of the hundreds of thousands of people crossing over the Brooklyn Bridge. It still looks like something out of a movie, so many people.

Learned my lesson after hurricane Charlie 2005 and have a 15 KW standy by generator that will power the entire home incl. HW., enough fuel for 3 weeks

Posted By cmkavala on 10 Nov 2012 01:30 AM
Learned my lesson after hurricane Charlie 2005 and have a 15 KW standy by generator that will power the entire home incl. HW., enough fuel for 3 weeks

I was looking to do a diesel generator and PV solar. What did the generator cost you?

The whole New Jersey fiasco should get people to pay attention and see how easily systems can fail and how long it can take for them to be repaired. Fuel/gas rationing is still going on.

I will be all electric, no natural gas lines in my area. Propane is an option but that has to be trucked in and it's no longer cheaper than electric. Also being somewhat in a quake zone, I don't like having explosive gas lines snaking through the walls. With Hurricane Sandy the gas line infrastructure collapsed and natural gas explosions and fires raged from natural gas lines that had ruptured and ignited.

I've often wondered what would happen to our county (Pinellas) in FL if a Cat 5 hit. There are nearly 1 million people there, and 80% of the county would be flooded in a direct hit. Our house is on high ground, but if the structure survived, there would be no where to go- no stores, no gas stations, no work, and all of the bridges would likely be damaged. The entire infrastructure would no longer exist, and you'd need a boat to get in or out. They no longer advocate evacuation, since under ideal conditions, it would take longer than the 12 hour warning you get. The Tampa- St Pete area is a huge disaster waiting to happen.

That is one of many reasons that are driving us to move to high ground in rural, inland SC. I can't get the house built fast enough!