Gables-Frame or ICF
Last Post 04 Jul 2007 02:41 AM by pcoughlin. 13 Replies.
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DugUser is Offline
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28 Mar 2007 09:22 PM

What do you guys do on gables, frame or stay with ICF?  In an effort to simplify my first ICF build, I am leaning toward stick framing the gable ends of my home and using icynene to insulate.  The gable will be nearly 20 foot in height and span 28 foot (it will provide a loft above the kitchen and dining room overlooking the living room.)  Thoughts...?

walltechUser is Offline
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28 Mar 2007 09:44 PM
Well our opionion would rest on your support from your ICF dealer/distributor. If they will be involved with the gable stack and pour, and there comfortable with it so be it. If your on your own as a first timer, stick it!

Dave
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29 Mar 2007 12:43 PM

We had both solutions in our build.

This gable end is where the upstairs media room is (also w/ an open loft to below outside of it) and we did ICF.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v72/Billusa99/Frame0013.jpg

This gable end is vented attic above the master suite, so we did stick.  It is on the oppposite end of the house from the first pic, with the lofted living/dining/kitchen area in between.  We spray foamed the entire upper half-wall that faces the inside space.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v72/Billusa99/Frame0017.jpg

icfblocksUser is Offline
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29 Mar 2007 10:44 PM
What pitch is the gable?  They really aren't hard to do.  Just make sure your measurements are correct.  Stagger braces to the peak and pour.  It works well.. Foam seal your attic and your utility bills will go down.  No vents.
Thanks,<br>Tom<br>www.advbuildingtech.com
DugUser is Offline
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29 Mar 2007 11:06 PM
It's 7/12.  The "challenging" part is the tall wall created by the cathedral ceiling...roughly 24 feet.  I'd like ICF all the way up, but icynene is sounding better and better...
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30 Mar 2007 12:53 AM
Heres an example of a 10/12 gable end. Up here in central Oregon theres a lot of clients going for the 'timber truss' big vaulted great rooms, doesn't exactly make it easy. This gable end was originally engineered to be framed with wood, I was a little hesitant with building the gable because of having the 'weak' corners on the left and right of the surrounding windows, but after careful though I came up with a rebar schedule that I felt was appropriate and more than enough to carry the loads. This gable was around 24' 6" to the peak, we wound up 'capping' the gable end with plywood ( the 2x4's are along the gable to attach the pre-ripped plywood) after the first lift, then we poured to the peak.

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DugUser is Offline
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30 Mar 2007 10:05 PM

pcoughlin-

Looks like you braced the wall with 2x4...is that typical?  Do you normally brace with wood, or do you use a fabricated brace?  I'm having a difficult time locating braces in this area and would like to use dimensional lumber as supports, but still a little shy about it.

 

Cattail BillUser is Offline
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31 Mar 2007 07:39 AM
Dug;
Any time you use dimensional lumber as bracing there is risk.

The first part is to find good straight lumber that is free of weak points such as knots and cracks. Lumber is not as rigid as steel or aluminum stiff backs and can bow in certain situations and with foam forms that can be many situations. All foam forms will settle (although it may be very minimual depending on the density and thickness of the foam), so you run the risk of the lumber bowing when settling occurs and then the wall bowing which is difficult to straighten using lumber verses a metal stiff back system.
Depending on the form that risk may be insignificant, as many have said in the past talk to your supplier in this regards and get a recommendation.
The other thing to consider with lumber is the fact that a straight 2X today may warp a few days down the road from sun and rain and temp issues so what started out straight is no longer.
I am not sure where you are located from this post but if you let us know someone in your area may have info on rental bracing available in your area.
The other thing to consider is how big of a project you are doing and how long it will tie up rental bracing, this could get very costly I have had contractors with a first time project rent bracing from me for so long that they ended up owning it by the time their project was complete, and that was at $3 per unit per day for 5 day work week.
You may want to consider buying a set of bracing use it as long as you need and then posting it for sale on this web site, and buy the way we always leave our bracing on until the roof truss's have been installed it makes this job much easier. Just a suggestion!
ContractorPeteUser is Offline
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31 Mar 2007 01:49 PM
Posted By Dug on 03/30/2007 10:05 PM

pcoughlin-

Looks like you braced the wall with 2x4...is that typical?  Do you normally brace with wood, or do you use a fabricated brace?  I'm having a difficult time locating braces in this area and would like to use dimensional lumber as supports, but still a little shy about it.

 

The above bracing method was a special situation given that there was not 2nd floor to build off of. Please note however that the first 10 feet of the walls were poured prior to the pour in the picture. This gave us a nice solid base to attach our 2x4 't-braces' to. I always pick out my dimensional lumber to make sure it is straight especially when I am going to use it in a situation like this. On all our other walls we use a pre-fab bracing system. I would highly suggest eigther renting or purchasing a quality bracing system as Bill says.

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icfblocksUser is Offline
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31 Mar 2007 02:00 PM

Dug,

Where are you located.  In lots of the country there is bracing available.  Post your location and maybe someone can help you. 

Thanks,<br>Tom<br>www.advbuildingtech.com
DugUser is Offline
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31 Mar 2007 06:01 PM

pcoughlin,

 

I'll have a similar situation if I go with ICF on my gables.  I was just looking at my plans, I could get by with about 18 feet of ICF, then frame the remaining 6 foot.  This would give me an ICF wall against the living area, and frame in the attic area.  I'd like to stick with ICF if at all possible. 

To Tom,

I am in the Kansas City area.  I haven't checked with Carter-Waters yet.  I just found out they sell block, Amvic I believe.  I'll be in touch with them next week. 

irnivekUser is Offline
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01 Apr 2007 09:02 PM
A decade ago, we poured our second ICF job with a gable with no problem.

April 9 we are pouring a couple of 14/12 gables in Indianapolis, also radius windows in radius walls.

In a few weeks, we'll be pouring many 6/12 gables in OK city.

Feel free to stop by.
The best training you may ever get is working on someone else's job...

Kevin
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01 Apr 2007 10:30 PM
Kevin,

If you wouldn't mind, I would like to spend a couple of days with your crew setting blocks and see an actual pour.  I work cheap (free in this case)!  OK City is close enough I could burn a couple vacation days and shoot down there.  You can contact me through email: [email protected].

Dug
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04 Jul 2007 02:41 AM
heres another gable end example on a house I finished a few months ago. Almost 30' to the peak, 12/12 pitch. Most challenging job for me thus far, but end product was great.

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