Vermonter
 New Member
 Posts:79
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| 09 Apr 2007 04:53 PM |
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How complicated is it to build a pitched concrete roof? Not much pitch, just 2-4 / 12. Will the ICF deck systems work at an angle? What type of details are required where it meets the walls?
I've been looking around for info from manufacturers but haven't found any yet.
Thanks for any info!
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PatrickT
 Basic Member
 Posts:157
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| 09 Apr 2007 07:48 PM |
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Vermonter,
Concrete roof, you bet. Pitched, why 2-4/12? I'm going nearly flat as in most comercial buildings. For me it's the roof top patio I'm going for. As far as manufactures, you may want to think;
Speed floor, (steel joist)
Hambro, (steel joist)-> The one I'm going with
Insul-deck, (Foam form with cavities for utilities)
Lite-deck, (Foam forms with out cavities for utulities)
The conection of walls and roof is more of a thermal path issue. With my roof being a patio, I want a concrete surface. On the other hand, with a slab exposed to the outside, I must isolate the roof slab from the ICF wall mass. The concrete of my ICFs will be considered inside mass. The roof mass will be extereior. The best I can think of at this time is a thermal break between walls and roof via a fiber glass sheet material. I have posted this exact question on this site as 'Isolated slabs'
You can have 10" of foam insulation but, if your slabs connect it will suck the heat right out. Also, think of expansion. In my home, 54x70, the roof can expand/contract 1/2" due to temp range. Preplan to allow for this.
Patrick T |
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ContractorPete
 Basic Member
 Posts:115
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Vermonter
 New Member
 Posts:79
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| 11 Apr 2007 12:31 AM |
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How well do flat roofs do in cold weather? I know that concrete could support the snow load, but I'm wary of ice damage. The freeze/thaw cycles we get here really wreck stuff fast. I've heard a lot about "green"roofs, and I worked on a building at Middlebury College that has one. That one relies on a membrane. http://www.kierantimberlake.com/featured_projects/atwater_commons_1.htmlBeautiful building. I was just a laborer, it got me through the winter. Guess I need to do some more research.......any input is appreciated! |
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Vermonter
 New Member
 Posts:79
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irnivek
 Basic Member
 Posts:229
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| 11 Apr 2007 08:17 AM |
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Check out the details on www.amvicsystem.com for Amdeck also, they have many applications for pitched roofs.
Kevin |
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PatrickT
 Basic Member
 Posts:157
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| 11 Apr 2007 08:21 AM |
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Vermonter,
For my flat concrete roof I'm working on the idea of using a add-mix for water proofing the slab, Zypex, and expansion joints. For the expasion joint I will use a rubberized top pach to seal the joint. Roof slabs should not have the frost/water heave you get from a slab on grade. What is an issue is slab expansion due to temp change. My expansion joints can be placed over bearing walls.
If this approch does not insure a water tight roof, I will need to go with a elastimeric coating. AMES Reaserch sells a complete line of concrete roof coatings. These coating are meant to be a walking/patio surface.
I feel confident this will work. I had an appartment in Mexico with a flat concrete roof. It was old and in pretty bad shape. Not coated at all. May thru Sept, lots of rain. I never had a leak.
I look forward to using my roof as a large patio. Though we won't have a true green roof, we will have small potted trees and other varrious potted greenery. Our stair case will go to the roof to facilitate it's use.
Patrick T
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kenton
 New Member
 Posts:5
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| 13 Apr 2007 12:51 AM |
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Peter in Oregon, 1. What did you use to seal the roof? 2. Did you provide a thermal break between the walls and roof? 3. How was the roof insulated?
General observation...
In dealing with a building material as heavy as concrete I wouldn't be trying to figure a lot of this out. I'd have an idea what I wanted and then I'd hire a qualified structural engineer to design the details and ensure that the design was practical and safe. |
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Vermonter
 New Member
 Posts:79
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| 13 Apr 2007 12:56 AM |
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General observation...
In dealing with a building material as heavy as concrete I wouldn't be trying to figure a lot of this out. I'd have an idea what I wanted and then I'd hire a qualified structural engineer to design the details and ensure that the design was practical and safe. I definately agree! I'm trying to figure out what I want before I take up a bunch of an engineer's time.
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ContractorPete
 Basic Member
 Posts:115
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| 13 Apr 2007 07:52 PM |
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Posted By kenton on 04/13/2007 12:51 AM Peter in Oregon, 1. What did you use to seal the roof? 2. Did you provide a thermal break between the walls and roof? 3. How was the roof insulated?
General observation...
In dealing with a building material as heavy as concrete I wouldn't be trying to figure a lot of this out. I'd have an idea what I wanted and then I'd hire a qualified structural engineer to design the details and ensure that the design was practical and safe. 1. - The roof was sealed with roofing membrane, I believe it was 40mil lifetime warranty (sorry I dont remember the specifics). 2. & 3. - The underside of the roof was sprayed by sego. The result was 6-8 inches of expanded foam that covered the whole underside of the roof, including the areas where the roof intersected the icf walls. This acted as the thermal break for the interior of the house. I imagine that some thermal energy was lost from the heat transfering between the walls and the roof, but I believe it is VERY minimal. It is an airtight home, no leaks....minimal heat loss.
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PatrickT
 Basic Member
 Posts:157
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| 14 Apr 2007 08:37 AM |
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Peter,
Great project!
With you building in OR, the thermal heat loss is small compared to my Indiana location. We have cold winters and hot summers. The concrete temp in a typical ICF falls some where inbetween indoor and outside temp. (Assuming a constant outdoor temp). A thermally connected roof/wall will act as a thermal path based on Delta T, Tinside and Toutside. The greater the difference in TD, the faster the heat will move. If a rigid but insulative material could be placed on top of the ICF wall prior to pouring the roof slab, much of the thermal path will be lost. (Hambro frame and rebar remain. I saw the litrature of one lock manufacture where the roof slab does not get poured over the ICF block. The roof slab is poured up against the inside foam. The only connection was the steel joist.
I have sent my plans to Hambro, yesterday. I will call to discuss options to reduce thermal losses.
Patrick T
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isolmes
 New Member
 Posts:1
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| 11 Dec 2012 10:57 AM |
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How did your flat roof turn out..I know ithas been a few years so i don't know if you will even get this post, but i am curious. I would like to do the same thing but there is very little first hand experience out there. |
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Alton
 Veteran Member
 Posts:2164
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| 12 Dec 2012 07:29 PM |
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More options for concrete roofs: 1. Shotcrete roof panels by Gulf Concrete Technology. 2. Prestress, pretensioned, hollow core planks. |
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Residential Designer & Construction Technology Consultant -- E-mail: Alton at Auburn dot Edu Use email format with @ and period . 334 826-3979 |
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HamptonsICF
 New Member
 Posts:36
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| 03 Jan 2013 06:03 AM |
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Did very steep pitched roof in Europe just used ICF block laid over at an angle and open at very top for concrete with a couple vibe holes. This left a framed roof inside and out, finish how you like they just put plywood and shingles. Lite & Insul deck are good options but agreed on the thermal break. Best Jay |
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| Contact us at 631-725-2404 [email protected] |
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jonr
 Senior Member
 Posts:5341
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| 04 Jan 2013 05:16 PM |
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2. Prestress, pretensioned, hollow core planks. That plus rigid foam makes sense to me. |
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