Reading earlier comments on the forum I get the impression that Platon is a good way to go for below grade, and Tuff II for the transition from Platon to siding.

Some questions, the first prompted by a conversation with the local building inspector.

What is the best way to waterproof the joint between the footing and the wall? Does glueing the first row of blocks to the footing take care of this? The BI said that is the main problem area he has seen with foundation waterproofing around here. With regular concrete footings and walls, builders just use asphalt over the joint, which of course is not an option with ICF.

Second question: How do you make the transition from Tuff II to Platon? Can you overlap the Tuff II mesh over the platon and apply the coating on that? Since the Platon top edge would normally be at, or slightly below grade, you want the top edge to be sealed, right?

Does anyone have experience with Groundbreaker FRP material for the transition zone between Platon and siding?

How about ECO-Seal sealer and membranes for the waterproofing? Any experience with it?

My situation is complicated by the fact that the grade slopes along about 2/3 of the perimeter of the house, and I'm planning on using Hardiplank, so the transition areas will all be stepped or sloped.

If the finish floor is a higher elevation than the footing/wall interface then the value of waterproofing the joint is questionable. With System Platon, water on either side of the membrane should travel to the top of footing and then to the foundation drain.

If the wall is poured on top of a slab-on-grade, where the finish floor elevation and the wall/floor joint are the same elevation, I like to use either Waterstop-RX or Synco-flex waterstop at the joint. These materials are placed on the floor or footing before you start the first course of forms.

Glueing the block to the footing will not replace waterproofing.

Bruce Cain, P.E.
ICF Building Systems
Mt. Juliet, TN

That's kind of what I was thinking. But since the BI brought it up I figure I better address it, if only long enough to dismiss it. My floor will be above grade, suspended inside the ICF walls. I plan to have a conditioned crawl space so water intruding into the crawl space wouldn't be the greatest thing to have happen. However, the vapor barrier will come up the wall several inches whatever water seeps through would be under it.  I suppose I shouldn't get to concerned about that one.

Now, all I need are answers to my other questions.

I am interested in getting input on water infiltration issues with ICF;s. Has anyone used a internal below floor perimeter system with sump and vapor barrier to address either floor wall water penetration or just wall water penetration. We are involved in solving ( no sprays paints etc.) water issues from inside the basement.

Could you also focus on why you feel various water issues surface in ICF installs. All input appreciated. Joe in Ma.

Are you looking at new construction, or existing problems? If new here's what I'm planning on doing, not because I expect to have water problems but because I don't want to find out after I'm done building that I will have them, i.e., an ounce of prevention.

Take a look at the thread about capillary breaks if you haven't already. The water issue was kicked around pretty good there.

I plan to put a perimeter french drain around the outside of the footers, draining to daylight. I also plan to put some drain pipe around at least some of the footer perimeter on the inside. It will be connected to the outside drain and also to a vent through the roof. I'm doing a sealed and conditioned crawl space so the interior drain will vent off any soil gases that may be present as well as vent off water vapor. By venting the vapor that inevitably migrates upward through the ground I'll prevent moisture buildup under the vapor barrier. I also plan to use the crawl space as the air supply plenum for the heating/cooling system so I want to keep it pure. If, by chance, liquid water does creep around the footers it'll get drained off to the outside.

Hmmmm, as I write this I get to wondering if connecting the inside pipe to the outside drain is such a hot idea. In fact, it may end up being a real cold idea! Cold outside air will flow by convection all the way through to the roof vent, carrying some heat with it. I better rethink this.

As for water issues surfacing with ICF installs. Water issues are a concern, or should be, with all home construction. I think all you are seeing is that ICF builders are more aware of energy and indoor air quality issues than the average "knock'em out fast and cheap" tract builder, hence are more likely to bring up such issues for discussion. Just greater awareness, not greater problem!

Exterior footing drains around a foundation (with or without fabric surround) are subject to filling with sediment. Once this happens the water pressure buildup on the exterior wall increases; enter heavy rains and pressure looks for relief at floor wall joint. The soil on the outside wall has been turned (nt compacted) and the rain tends to bring the sediment to the pipe (french drain) below.

All the waterproofing i see is done (ICF) on the outside positive side of foundatioin wall. Sprays, membranes etc. Yet the water issue continues to surface on the inside wall.

Again can we get some comments on where we are seeing water breakthrough on ICF and perhaps reasons why this is happening? Failed membrane on outside? cracks in poured wall. broken seals?

Joebos : you kinda hijacked this thread, how about reposting your question as a new thread with specifics. :-)

Mac : If you place your basement floor on your footings, it is then 4 to 6 inches above the top of your perimeter tile.
          Water should never be an issue, and the bottom course joint should not require waterproofing.
          If you are in clay soil. and are effectively building a bathtub, then that's a different game. 

 

         http://s83.photobucket.com/albums/j295/ericicf/Brockville%20Townhouses/?action=view¤t=CranstonBasement1stFloor082.jpg
http://s83.photobucket.com/albums/j295/ericicf/Brockville%20Townhouses/?action=view¤t=May30006.jpg

If as you stated you have a "conditioned crawl space" and it is done correctly moisture shouldn't be an issue at all.  The seal around the inside parameter formed by the vapor barrier should prevent any water entering between the footer and wall.  The Platon should take care of any other problem further up the wall. 

Let  me  explain.   I  am a  waterproofer  with a  focus on  both  residential  and  commercial  Poured  concrete,  block  and  stone foundations.

 

I  recently came  across  a  water issue  (on  the interior wall)  of  a ICF   foundation  built  7  years  ago.  I  should  also  mention  that  all current our efforts  are  directed towared solving  water  issues  from  the  inside of  the  basement;   floor  wall  conduits, vapor  barrier,  Pumps  etc ; All non  ICF foundations


This  homeowner  has  4  to  5  breakthroughs  of  water  on the  wall  of  a  ICF  foundation.  The  inside  basement  walls  have  EPS  panels installed .   Im  trying  to  determine  what  type  of  ICF  configuration  was  used;  homeowner  gathering that  info  at   the  moment.


I understand  fully  you  currently waterproof  the (membranes  etc) outside , using  perimeter  drain  etc,  prior  to  backfill.   

Im  trying to  gather information  on  these  type  of  waterproofing  issues  involving  ICF.   So if  you  will  pls  share  what if  any  problems  you  have  experienced  etc  regarding  waterproofing  failures  with  ICF.

Thanks  for  any  help.

The biggest problem I've seen with ICF is in regards to improperly installed/waterproofed brickledge.
Often the horizontal plane of the brickledge gets no waterproofing/flashing.
And the brickledge is buried slightly below grade, and the mason installs the porous veneer below grade and does not grout solid the air gap below grade. And then water enters behind the waterproofing membrane(s) and it's easiest path is to the interior.

But everyone still seems to want the brickledge.....

What's the best way to 'waterprof' or flash the brickledge?

joebos2, the reason your situation doesn't resonate is because most of us use approved systems. Sounds to me like your ICF wall got NO waterproofing system.

That very well could be the case. You raise a interesting point. Are you saying that APPROVED ICF systems require waterproofing ( membrane, peel stick, or dimple)
on the exterior?. What are the appoved systems?

Keep in mind im trying to deal with a waterproofing problem (from the inside) after the fact. Excavating around a foundation with installed deck and front porch can be very expensive for a homeowner.

Lets take this a step further. Has anyone installed a ICF system with exterior waterproofing system and experienced water issues on the inside?

I mean that all ICFs require approved waterproofing.

The only two to code here in the PacNW are peel-n-stick (cheaper), and dimpled. Dimpled (Platon, DeltaMS Clear) is a triple barrier: the plastic is a water barrier, the air gap relieves hydrostatic pressure, and the cementious parging on the ICF is the third.

Sounds to me like you'll need to use the traditional fix of cutting the slab around the inside and installing form-a-drain inside. The -only- way these systems could fail is if applied improperly or damaged, and this would result only in a tiny bit of leakage. Sounds to me in your case like someone decided that the foam is enough waterproofing.

Few years back I faced the same Issue I contacted truworth homes https://www.truworthhomes.com/waterproofing-solutions-basement-terrace-walls.html! They gave me paint of Rust-Oleum! Satisfied!

Note: Above is all in good fun. Not trying to swipe at you.

Nowadays, there are TONS of waterproofing technologies for ICF.