A virtical ICF is a panel that's pre cut to the virtical size required at the factory and assembled either on or off site to suit. They are four feet wide, have structural steel embedments, can come pre coated and finished and you can stand a 3000 ft house in a day to my standards (that's one eight of an inch deviation max in any plane over 8 ft.

They don't need concrete, we can surface them on the interior with a structural board that we have or if the customer wants something nice we pour concrete.

There no foam on the inside so its strong for hanging anything you want, but more importantly it takes advantage of the thremodynamic properties to the max, producing a much more energy efficient home than a simple ICF.

Its the way of the future combining the simplicity of a SIP's with the energy efficiency and quality of an ICF at a much cheaper price.

Incidently on price the ICF companies have all just raised their prices as I predicted a couple of weeks ago, now block is in the range of 3.90 to 4 per foot delivered and its set to rise again by years end.

Alright, anyone that has not yet put on your high boots should now do so. I read the things the so called "experts" on this forum spew forth and usually get a good chuckle. This guy takes it to the max!! It is a pity that a few consumers trying to gain information will read this thread and go away scratching their heads thinking "what a bunch of idiots". People, please don't believe everything you read and consult several ICF "experts" before you make your huge commitment. And by all means, ask for references from their last 10 jobs. ICF's are the way to go and there are several good poducts out there and many great installers as well as the hacks. BE CAREFUL!!

Dave why are you on ICF talking Green its about Insulated CONCRETE Forms , not some derivative "new" product , i am with miformguy!!

Why is TF's R-factor so low compared to other ICFs that have R-40 and higher?

A lot of claims are made abour R values but these are just that CLAIMS!!!

For instance, I was looking at a block that 'CLAIMED' an R value of 52 recently, but when it was put through a calculation the value was in fact 24.3 theroreticaly, but was actualy less given that the valuations modification table is only for pure foam and not that containing recycled products that tend to transfer heat more readily than EPS itself.

Next to take into concideration is what an R value realy is, don't get carried away thinking that R value is the be all and end all as regard to heat transference because its not. You need to see how the formulation tables for R values was developed and it more properly relates to gases rather than thermal transference itself. There's some very complex calculations required to actualy determine the energy efficiency of a wall and the figure ends up being calculated in BTU's (British thermal units).

So don't get fooled, take a look at how thick the foam is, concider carefully what you coat it with because its the coating in most cases that ensures your R value, ie an air tight coating as against siding will stop 'gas flow' through your wall and its envelope surface, thus producing a tighter energy efficient wall.

Uh, because they are being honest? When you see the word 'effective' you should be running the other direction.

EPS has an R-Value of around R-4 per inch. Concrete about R-0(it's a thermal conductor). You do the math.

i am done talking about verticals, good luck with that bottom feeding thing.talk later

DaveF, you could certainly add tremendously to the credibility of all your statements in this forum if you would explain to us who you really are. Just what is your role and function in the ICF industry? Who do you work for? Give us a company name. What's your history in ICF?

You've been in this forum less than three weeks, have nothing in your profile, toss around comments that make you sound like you have top level inside scoop on what's going on, but give us no concrete (pun intended!) info to establish the credibility of those comments. Someone has already commented, and I second it, that deficiencies in your spelling and grammar belie the degree of stature you attempt to infer. One complicating factor is that at least some of your comments make sense, comments anyone with a working knowledge of ICF should be able to make, but other comments come across as a puff of hot air. Then you call folks names such as "flying monkeys," a communication technique that someone of stature in any business line would not use.

In short you come across with a very mixed message with no way for forum readers to judge the validity or veracity of that message. If you expect forum readers to pay attention to you, do yourself a favor and give us something substantive with which to make an informed judgement of you.

Thank you.

Mac

Ben,
If you are still here.
Wow look what you started,LOL
Just read a lot of post with nothing to do with what you asked.
I hope you read though all the BS and find what you are looking for.
We are so off what we started here.
I have worked with TF and will do it again.
It has strong points and weaknesses just like anything else out their.
It will turn easily in 1 foot with out cutting( but it need to be strapped all the way around)
TF will also let you set 1 side and work inside the form (tie steel ,run electrical, water , plumbing and get inspected) than install the other side of foam.
As for all the other thing I have seen here I don't know,I have not seen it or done it.
Some assembly is required and you results may vary (as well as your opinions)
Thats all I have to say about that,
Over and out of this.

Woulfcc,
The discussion has proven lively, though maybe not exactly what I was looking for.  I decided to use the TF system  to stay with the same company (I'm buying my SIPs through them as well, I don't know if I can mention company specifics here, so I won't).  I liked the idea of working from the inside of the form, and the TF system looked more familiar as I'm used to stick framing (I start with a bottom "plate" then add "studs")
We'll find out tomorrow how it goes together, I've got a friend used to conventional plywood forms helping me.  I'll be interested to hear his take on it.  If you want to comment on progress I've got another post on the ICF forum with pictures.  Everyone, please feel free to critique what you see.  I've learned much from other's criticism, and the knowledge of proffessionals is precious.

Ben