Stala Framing...?
Last Post 10 Mar 2012 03:48 PM by yetanotherjohn. 16 Replies.
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renangleUser is Offline
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29 Oct 2007 10:16 AM
I recently received some information regarding Stala Framing that can be use rather than V-buck.  Has anyone had any experience with the product?  If so, would you advise using it rather than Vbuck?  Website is LINK

Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks


dmaceldUser is Offline
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29 Oct 2007 04:30 PM
Posted By renangle on 10/29/2007 10:16 AM

Any input would be appreciated.

Just looked at their web site. Not impressed. Pretty assemblies, and should be rigid. The web site is sorely lacking for info. Nothing about installation procedures or how to assemble the frames, or if the user even does assemble them. No technical drawings or size information. Pretty poor presentation of a maybe pretty good product.

I would never use them in a cold climate. They are steel and continuous from inside to outside thus forming a great thermal bridge. The inner and outer frames look like they are intended to be trim around the window or door that is installed in them. That large trim surface is a great collector and radiator to transfer heat to both outside air and inside air.

From a structural standpoint they look like they would be very good. From an energy standpoint, p*** poor.

Just my opinion based on what I see on their web site.





Even a retired engineer can build a house successfully w/ GBT help!
Stala_IFAsUser is Offline
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27 Aug 2008 11:22 AM

I am available to answer any questions about Stala Integrated Framing Assemblies (IFAs) My phone is 502-779-2127 or I can be contacted by email [email protected]

Our website was launched recently and we are continually updating with helpful data. We encourage interested parties to contact us directly with questions or concerns.

With regard to energy efficiencies of ICFs Stala performs extremely well. Our assembly is engineered as a low to no-maintenance product which performs for the life cycle of the structure. We will not degrade as wood will do and is much stronger than vinyl. Stala engineering has designed a system to speed up and align the ICF wall. Within this design, we naturally eliminate air infiltrations. Conventional bucking methods can have issues with penetrations, deterioration, cupping and twisting. Misc. materials / flashing is needing the majority of the time to get the thermal envelope buttoned up. 

There are also more upcoming Stala advancements even beyond current offerings. One advancement in particular will address any concerns about using Stala IFAs in cold or hot weather regions.

The current grade of Stala you can view below has been designed for heavy duty commercial construction. Typically, we are included on larger ICF jobs through working with the architectual deisgn teams and specified into plans. However, we are also available throughout the ICF community as a universal product for ICF projects. To realize Stala performace and reduction in materials, money, labor and time please contact us during the designing of the ICF structure.  

We are attaching some interesting job site photos of our current school projects under construction 08/08.

*Note* All of these Stala Assembies are fabricated to coordinate the materials/trades beyond ICF wall construction. For example, we coordinate with Divison 8 to include hardware preperations to swing doors, another example is with drywallers, we have various details to eliminate drywall in jambs and corner guard at doors.

Please contact me for more information. 


Sincerely,

-David


Attachment: Joseph Warren HS MS 062408 016 - Copy.JPG
Attachment: Joseph Warren HS MS 062408 028 - Copy.JPG

David Morris<br>General Manager - Stala Integrated Assemblies, LLC.<br><br>5101 Commerce Crossings Dr. Suite A.<br>Louisville, KY 40229<br><br>Toll-Free: (888) 779-2118<br>Direct: (502) 779-2127<br>Cell: (502) 424-2509<br>Fax: (502) 810-2227<br>Email: [email protected]<br>Visit us on the web: www.StalaFraming.com<br>One or more patents pending
Paul StevensUser is Offline
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27 Aug 2008 04:40 PM
It looks interesting but at what cost?? V-Buck is about $5-7 per linear foot. the Amvic system, which looks nice also, costs close to $10/foot. I would imagine this system would be close to those numbers. I have been told that it saves time and money with labour to balance out the difference, I can't figure out how. A 3'x4' opening would cost about $84 to use V-Buck and about $28 for 2x12. That is $56 difference for 1 opening. Now times that by all of you openings take into consideration the bigger openings and how much more it will cost, wow, I get about 4 hours worth of work with $56 for 1 of my guys. I just can't justify the cost, and then to pass it on to the home owner, that would not win me to many jobs. If there is something I am not seeing please fill me in!!
Paul Stevens


buddenUser is Offline
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27 Aug 2008 10:28 PM
David,

The appeal of Stala to me would be as the portal to a safe room.   Do you have something in order of a prehung tornado-proof door ... so there would be no need for furring ... and the whole assembly can be tied into the wall where it won't go anywhere? 




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28 Aug 2008 08:38 AM
Hi Budden, yes that options makes sense for resi ICFs. The current grade of Stala IFAs is utilized 95% of the time in commercial projects. Stala is a sensible solutioin for homeowners to realize a very strong opening to a safe room. We coordinate with all door manufacturers for preps and if a typical design would make sense to the resi ICF community we could look to offer a turn key solution.

Thanks for your question.

dm



David Morris<br>General Manager - Stala Integrated Assemblies, LLC.<br><br>5101 Commerce Crossings Dr. Suite A.<br>Louisville, KY 40229<br><br>Toll-Free: (888) 779-2118<br>Direct: (502) 779-2127<br>Cell: (502) 424-2509<br>Fax: (502) 810-2227<br>Email: [email protected]<br>Visit us on the web: www.StalaFraming.com<br>One or more patents pending
Stala_IFAsUser is Offline
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28 Aug 2008 09:18 AM

Hi Paul-

Thanks for your post. There is no set pricing on Stala since the degree of material coordination changes with each commercial ICF job we are specified into. The amount of steel and design vary with each project with larger or smaller jamb depths, variable air spaces, hollow metal door swings, etc. 

With the current grade of Stala (Heavy-duty commercial ICFs) we will typically work with architects to assist in design to make all ICF openings as efficient as possible.

Pricing for Stala is realized once we understand how the opening all coordinated materials are to perform. Then, we will go to work with the bidding subs to help realize material and labor savings metrics. This is then reflected in their project bidding. With the right size project (say over 50+ openings) when Stala is compared to various conventional bucking costs of; extra labor, materials,  inconsistencies and life-cycle costs we are the the most effective solution to finish commercial ICF openings.

GC's and CM's see approximately (6) of their trades coordinated to save time and since Stala is manufactured specifically for the materials specified, waste in lapping materials over each other is dramatically reduced. For example, on commercial ICF windows we eliminate the need to wrap the jambs with drywall since Stala can be finished to the desired look of the commercial owner. Our interior drywall return helps drywallers speed up at openings. A school of 150+ windows / 100 doors will save approximately $11,000 in drywall and corner guards since they are not needed anymore using Stala IFAs.

Reduction is materials and labor is coordinated with;

Foundations
ICF Installers
Masons / Exterior finishers
Window installers
Door installers
Drywallers

Performance "beyond bucking" is also key. Wall alignment, elimination of air infiltrations and speed just to name a few areas of performance with Stala. There are various advantages for the owners to consider with Stala that will positively impact costs through-out the life cycle of a commercial ICF structure.

Sincerely,

dm




David Morris<br>General Manager - Stala Integrated Assemblies, LLC.<br><br>5101 Commerce Crossings Dr. Suite A.<br>Louisville, KY 40229<br><br>Toll-Free: (888) 779-2118<br>Direct: (502) 779-2127<br>Cell: (502) 424-2509<br>Fax: (502) 810-2227<br>Email: [email protected]<br>Visit us on the web: www.StalaFraming.com<br>One or more patents pending
Paul StevensUser is Offline
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28 Aug 2008 07:01 PM
David,
thanks for the info, sounds interesting, will keep following to see how it all works out>
Paul Stevens


lkazanov2User is Offline
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29 Aug 2008 12:36 AM
Interesting product....

The web site demonstrates an inset method of window install. How about a flush to the exterior as is typical with most ICF installs and bucking methods?

Any trade shows planned?

Leonard



Stala_IFAsUser is Offline
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29 Aug 2008 06:39 AM

Hi Leonard-

We can incorporate any window door type into the Stala IFA.

I am attaching some typical exterior window pictures from some recent schools we have performed for.

As for trade shows let me get an updated list and post soon. We've been keeping pretty busy communicating with AIA and its members to specify Stala in commercial ICFs. However, we wish to keep the ICF community up to date with our advancements and help facilitate stronger, more efficient openings.

If there is any desire to come into Kentucky and meet with us, there are some amazing commercial ICFs that would be a better use of time than seeing samples at a trade show. The field performance of Stala is pretty amazing.

-David
[email protected]


Attachment: Copy of Amvic and Stala true ICF walls Franklin Co
Attachment: Copy (2) of Franklin Feb 08 window install success
Attachment: Copy of 100_0820.JPG

David Morris<br>General Manager - Stala Integrated Assemblies, LLC.<br><br>5101 Commerce Crossings Dr. Suite A.<br>Louisville, KY 40229<br><br>Toll-Free: (888) 779-2118<br>Direct: (502) 779-2127<br>Cell: (502) 424-2509<br>Fax: (502) 810-2227<br>Email: [email protected]<br>Visit us on the web: www.StalaFraming.com<br>One or more patents pending
icfnewbyUser is Offline
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01 Sep 2008 08:58 AM
Thermal bridging would be the deal-breaker for me.

"With regard to energy efficiencies of ICFs Stala performs extremely well. Our assembly is engineered as a low to no-maintenance product which performs for the life cycle of the structure."

This does not address the issue.

"There are also more upcoming Stala advancements even beyond current offerings. One advancement in particular will address any concerns about using Stala IFAs in cold or hot weather regions. "

? specifics ? This statement does not help potential customers.

I'm considering Trimax for my project (plastic, structural lumber). Still awaiting info on pricing.


Chris JohnsonUser is Offline
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01 Sep 2008 01:16 PM
I've have review the literature from Stala and see some advantages and disadvantages to it.

I have a commercial project in the works and will spec the product, it is availble for radius wall applications...which I like, as for cost, once the final plans are complete I will submit a set and get final pricing. The advantage is (especially for radius walls) it comes preassembled and can make building the radius much easier. Remember commercial projects once drawn don't change window sizes after the contract is signed. Residential...well that's another story and you need to be prepared to make window changes on the go in Custom Homes...it happens...especially with owner/builders


Chris Johnson - Pro ICF<br>North of 49
Stala_IFAsUser is Offline
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02 Sep 2008 09:14 AM
More specifically, in October 2008 Stala IFA's will be launching its design of a full thermal break for door and window assemblies. This advancement will be available within the current commercial grade line of Stala. More information will follow closer to launch. I can advise that the Stala TB is extremely strong and is one more step "beyond" conventional bucking.





David Morris<br>General Manager - Stala Integrated Assemblies, LLC.<br><br>5101 Commerce Crossings Dr. Suite A.<br>Louisville, KY 40229<br><br>Toll-Free: (888) 779-2118<br>Direct: (502) 779-2127<br>Cell: (502) 424-2509<br>Fax: (502) 810-2227<br>Email: [email protected]<br>Visit us on the web: www.StalaFraming.com<br>One or more patents pending
Stala_IFAsUser is Offline
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02 Sep 2008 09:26 AM

Hi Chris, thanks for your post. Yes, the prefabrication of Stala is a real advantage on large ICFs to minimize on site fabrication, this also ensures that openings are true immediately.

Please email or call when more detailed information is needed on specifying Stala IFAs.

You may want to have us do some light work with the arch design team when they are at windows and doors. There are numerous ways we can reduce materials and labor within our assembly. We are happy to review projected savings costs before drawing with conventional bucking such as wood, then changing to Stala.

Thanks. -dm



David Morris<br>General Manager - Stala Integrated Assemblies, LLC.<br><br>5101 Commerce Crossings Dr. Suite A.<br>Louisville, KY 40229<br><br>Toll-Free: (888) 779-2118<br>Direct: (502) 779-2127<br>Cell: (502) 424-2509<br>Fax: (502) 810-2227<br>Email: [email protected]<br>Visit us on the web: www.StalaFraming.com<br>One or more patents pending
yetanotherjohnUser is Offline
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10 Mar 2012 12:52 AM
David Morris,

The integrated framing assembly of Stala makes perfect sense to me. Faster/less labor to frame, helps keep the ICF wall true, integrates cleanly with the concrete wall/ICF blocks and the interior/exterior finish and helps with total air tightness as you have less variance between as speced and as built.
Any details on the thermal break characteristics you can share? We know the windows and doors are likely to be the worst culprits for air leaks and thermal bridges. I know the IFA would help vs other framing options for air tightness, but is it better/worse than the doors/windows or do you have a good enough thermal break that it is getting to be on par with the ICF wall?


buddenUser is Offline
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10 Mar 2012 12:56 PM
http://products.construction.com/Manufacturer/Reward-Wall-Systems-NST999205/products/NoricF4-Custom-Steel-Door-and-Window-Frames-for-Insulated-Concrete-Form--ICF--Construction-NST44955-P

Stala has some competition; see the above link. Google on 'steel door frame icf'


yetanotherjohnUser is Offline
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10 Mar 2012 03:48 PM
There is actually a third company making the integrated steel framing assembly. www.hafendorfer.com is also offering a integrated steel door frame. But there is no indication of any thermal break for them.
The NoricF4 talks about a thermal break, but no indication how effective it would be.
As near as I can tell Stalla got there first, but because everything is custom, they don't have a lot of "generic" technical data.
All in all though the integrated framing assembly concept makes a lot of sense to me. Especially over a great number of units or if the quality of workmanship will vary. I much rather rely on a solution that works by design and implementation than rely on a builder to get it right every time and come back to fix it if they mess up. Yeah they should do it right the first time, but they are human. At least this way you can measure the frames before concrete is poured and the frame can help make sure the wall is put up right.


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