NoLimitCalgary2
New Member
Posts:2
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| 19 Apr 2008 11:13 AM |
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Iam doing a big house in icf and there are two t walls in the plans. Since they don't make t blocks what is the best way to do them? Do you cut out 11"1/4 out of the exsisting wall and slide the other block in? Just looking for the best way! |
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buyerres
New Member
Posts:9
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| 19 Apr 2008 12:48 PM |
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Not sure what "brand" of ICF's you are using but several of them such as "Fox Blocks" see at www.foxblocks.com for one do have "T" blocks.
DMB |
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NoLimitCalgary2
New Member
Posts:2
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| 19 Apr 2008 07:30 PM |
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Iam using advantage blocks and they dont have them |
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bobgieser
New Member
Posts:33
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| 20 Apr 2008 07:15 PM |
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Take the wall you want to intersect into and line up the perpendicular form. Mark with a felt tip pen the to-be-cut form on the inside of the intersecting form. Cut the form so the intersecting form does not go inside, but stays outside. Continue this all the way up. Do not alternate in/out. Run a piece of rebar across the form within the webs with the cut opening about 20-24 inches. Cut another piece of rebar about 7 inches and place it behind the second web back from the opening. Now wire tie the two forms together using the rebar behind the webs of both pieces of forms for strength. Sinch it up tight. If this is not clear, call me and I'll walk you through it. Too bad that you can't ask this question of the salesman who sold you those forms. Price is not everything. Service and a full line of products with field techs make for a great experience. Bob Gieser Holdfastn Technologies Master Distributor for Nudura "We have T-Walls" South Central KY (916) 214-4398-cell 24/7 [email protected] |
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| Bob Gieser<br>Sales and Technical Support<br>Holdfast Technologies<br>Master Distributor for Nudura ICFs<br>(916) 214-4398-cell |
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bobgieser
New Member
Posts:33
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| 20 Apr 2008 07:18 PM |
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You might want to post this in the ICF category instead of the General Residential. |
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| Bob Gieser<br>Sales and Technical Support<br>Holdfast Technologies<br>Master Distributor for Nudura ICFs<br>(916) 214-4398-cell |
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Swift Cricket
New Member
Posts:4
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| 23 Apr 2008 01:40 PM |
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There is an easy way to do T-walls with a Yoke & Tie system offered by VBUCK www.vbuck.com Click on the Details button then click in Detail Sheet # 117. I hope that helps. |
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JTWelsh
New Member
Posts:7
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| 15 Aug 2008 02:38 PM |
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Nudura ICF's have several different sizes of T-Wall for their system. |
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Nudura Sales Rep - Bird Stairs
St. John's, Newfoundland Canada
T: 709-747-0040 |
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Aaron McKinney
New Member
Posts:56
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| 15 Aug 2008 03:56 PM |
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I would slide the t-wall into the perimeter wall, like you said, 2 1/2" (or whatever the thickness of the advantage panel is). Cut an extra 1/4" out of the perimeter wall (on each side of the t-wall) for more room to plumb and line after the wall is up. After the t-wall is plumb, seal the cracks with spray foam.
In order to intersect your t-wall into your perimeter wall, you have to cut a section out of your perimeter wall, which weakens the wall. Make sure that you have a brace on the other side of the wall right where the t section is. If your braces are on the inside and you are not able to brace the t section from the outside, you will at least need to cleet or support the forms with something. I use 2 4-5 foot 2x4's on each course, placing the middle of the 2x4 on the web that was cut. Something else I do while laying the horizontal rebar at the t section is I tie the rebar to the web that was cut and the two webs on both sides of the web that was cut, at each row (when I cut the web to make way for the t-wall I leave enough of the web to lay the 2 alternating horizontals in the cups or fingers). I tie the horizontal to the cut web, and to the webs on both sides of the cut web. It is a couple extra minutes of work, but worth it to me, especially if the block is a weaker block (I don't know in your case because I have never seen advantage block).
This is how I taught, and it works well for me, even on weaker blocks. |
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dmaceld
Veteran Member
Posts:1465
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| 15 Aug 2008 10:56 PM |
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Posted By Aaron McKinney on 08/15/2008 3:56 PM
I would slide the t-wall into the perimeter wall, like you said, 2 1/2" (or whatever the thickness of the advantage panel is). Cut an extra 1/4" out of the perimeter wall (on each side of the t-wall) for more room to plumb and line after the wall is up. After the t-wall is plumb, seal the cracks with spray foam.
In order to intersect your t-wall into your perimeter wall, you have to cut a section out of your perimeter wall, which weakens the wall. Make sure that you have a brace on the other side of the wall right where the t section is. If your braces are on the inside and you are not able to brace the t section from the outside, you will at least need to cleet or support the forms with something. I use 2 4-5 foot 2x4's on each course, placing the middle of the 2x4 on the web that was cut. Something else I do while laying the horizontal rebar at the t section is I tie the rebar to the web that was cut and the two webs on both sides of the web that was cut, at each row (when I cut the web to make way for the t-wall I leave enough of the web to lay the 2 alternating horizontals in the cups or fingers). I tie the horizontal to the cut web, and to the webs on both sides of the cut web. It is a couple extra minutes of work, but worth it to me, especially if the block is a weaker block (I don't know in your case because I have never seen advantage block).
This is how I taught, and it works well for me, even on weaker blocks. I did pretty much this same thing on my house with a couple of differences. I alternated which block was cut the greater amount. Every other block the perpendicular block was set into the first wall block, then the other courses the perpendicular block was cut to meet with the outside of the other block. One thing my distributor recommended that was a bit of a pain was to leave the web on the first wall blocks intact. This meant chewing out the foam from all around the web when cutting out the opening in the first wall block. Then I zip tied that web to the webs in the perpendicular blocks thus pulling the two walls tight to each other. Worked real good. I didn't do any extra bracing beyond having alignment system braces fairly close to the T. I put 90 bend rebar extending about 2' in both directions from the T wall and wire tied them to the bars in the first wall. They were zip tied to most of the webs they crossed.
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| Even a retired engineer can build a house successfully w/ GBT help! |
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James Eggert
Basic Member
Posts:411
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| 16 Aug 2008 08:52 AM |
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Too bad that you can't ask this question of the salesman who sold you those forms.
That is why some of the answers are difficult to implement at best.
I cannot fathom using Andrew's method because by cutting the web of the intersecting inside face of the exterior wall adds an inordinate amount of rebracing to what should be a simple intersection tied together with rebar as Bob mentioned.
Now, I also will say if anyone's method works for them it is correct for them. There is in theory no wrong way, however there are ways which make the labor factor prone to mistakes or missing something as simple as some extra bracing, then during the pour and something moves or "gives", watch out. The addition of a brace on the exterior wall at the intersection is a valuable piece of advice!! |
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| Take Care<br>Jim<br><br>Design/Build/Consulting<br>"Not So Big" Design Proponent |
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Farmboy
Basic Member
Posts:356
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| 18 Aug 2008 07:37 PM |
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Here's a website for ICF how to videos including a T wall.
http://www.logixicf.com/index.php?n=resources&o=installation
Conceptually I like Dmaceld's idea of alternating innies and outties, but other methods come from some pretty experienced ICF constructioneers. I too am facing more than one T wall in our future ICF home so this is a welcome thread. Cheers, Dave |
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Paul Stevens
Basic Member
Posts:200
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| 21 Aug 2008 04:33 PM |
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To solve this problem the easy way, purchase an ICF which has a T block. Although it is easy for the ICf pro's to cut and splice a T on site, for the do it yourselfer I would suggest buying them pre made, makes life a lot easier. When I started installing on my very first job we got to the garage and I said to the Tech guy "so where is the T block" his response 'oh you don't need a T all you do is cut here then wire tie there, put a brace here, then do this then do that ' I thought this would all be eliminated with one block, I was also told by other ICF reps which I asked about the T, that one wasn't needed because not every job had a T in it, I couldn't believe my ears. But now looks like the ICF manufactures are all slowly jumping on the T-block band wagon. It just rounds out there whole package to have all necessary blocks, and thats just my opinion, because I know that my buddy Chris will probably chime in because I know that he doesn't use them, but then again, he is also an ICF pro.
Paul Stevens |
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Aaron McKinney
New Member
Posts:56
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| 22 Aug 2008 01:16 AM |
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I have never used one, and I don't think I would want to. |
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Chicano
New Member
Posts:17
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| 22 Aug 2008 02:26 AM |
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What about just cutting some 4" round holes in the "main" wall(1 hole per block going vertically down the wall), put L-bent rebar through the holes coming out perpendicular to that wall and butting up the perpendicular wall so the previously mentioned rebar is protruding into the intersecting wall (and bent into the other wall). Should be easy enough to zip tie it tight, then pour concrete. Effect will be to have the walls connected with 4" round, horizontal columns and it eliminate cutting out the entire side of the wall. Again, not saying I have right idea, but I'm looking for someone to shoot holes in it. as it sounds easier and I wouldn't have to worry about as much bracing. Just re-inventing the wheel I guess. |
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SoCalScott
New Member
Posts:91
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| 22 Aug 2008 03:46 AM |
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Chicano - Its just as eaty to cut from top to bottom as cutting a cquare out of the form, also, you don't have to worry about "custom engineering". Waht you are describing is what is typically used for anchor bolt connections,but in t wall connections, continuous monolithic pours or somewhat close is preferred.
No matter waht the form configuration, you are going to have to brace weak spots like the "opposite" end of the t-wall as well as the sides of the t-wall just to make sure you dont have any problems. A true monolithic wall is much better than a sporatically spliced wall.
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Aaron McKinney
New Member
Posts:56
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| 22 Aug 2008 04:40 AM |
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Definately. You do not want to weaken your intersection by substituting full contact (monolithic) concrete from t-wall to perimeter with a 4" beam of concrete every 16", even if that beam is only 2 1/2" (width of panel). By doing so, you have just created a major weak link in your structure.
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