Attaching CMU internal walls to ICF
Last Post 05 Apr 2010 03:00 PM by aa_uk. 5 Replies.
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aa_ukUser is Offline
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05 Apr 2010 11:37 AM

More advice required, I'm afraid.

Some of my internal walls will be CMU (because it's cheaper!).  To attach these internal CMU walls to the external ICF walls would you cut a slot in the foam prior to the pour and bring the concrete out to the outer face of the foam or would you strip the foam back to the concrete after the pour and effectively set the end of the wall into the foam?

Are there any reasons why one method is better than the other?



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05 Apr 2010 11:40 AM
Technically an engineer should review the connection detail and provide calculations to allow for the connection of the two walls. However, your accessment of notching the foam to allow rebar through at the cut-outs is typically how to do this.


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05 Apr 2010 12:01 PM



I agree with ICFInstaller regarding the engineer particularly.  However, following up on his comment the way we see it here (most often) is -- for each course -- as you go up you lay a 90 rebar on top of the horizontal  rebar and tie it down -- cut out a small notch so that the 90 will lay down in the same plane as the horizontal.  Go all the way up and pour it and vibrate.  Now you can come back the next day and remove the foam to the thickness of the CMU and grout in your CMU wall.

There is nothing wrong with cutting the foam out first and blocking off such that you can pour concrete flush to the surface of the ICF wall.  This method is going to be stronger, but its stricks me as a bit overkill because your just extending the strength of the solid concrete a bit.   See what your engineer says.  Regards.

P.S. example photo is ICF to ICF coming off a corner (see keyway) -- little different scenario, but it should provide the basic idea.


Attachment: NUDURA_verticle_key-way_small.JPG

aa_ukUser is Offline
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05 Apr 2010 12:43 PM
Thanks for that, chaps.  Your replies weren't what I expected at all.  I hadn't anticpated that rebar would be part of the answer.  I can see that it would add a lot to the rigidity but don't you have to get the placement absolutely spot on so that the rebar matches exactly to the mortar courses in the blockwork?

I had expected to use something like this.  http://www.sabrefix.co.uk/products_....php?id=64  You just attach the channel to the concrete and then slide in the ties at the relevant spacings.

As you say, a discussion with the engineer may be required!

Thanks again for your help.

Andrew



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05 Apr 2010 02:31 PM
Very interesting looking product. If it's readily available and reasonably priced, and commonly accepted by your building officials, I'd say go for it! BTW, what are coach screws? That's not a yankee term at all that I know of. If you install the channels within a very few days of the pour you'll even have a easy time drilling the holes for the screws.

I think, considering the labor involved in cutting the foam before or after, and the work to cover the gap if you cut before the pour, you'd be better off to cut the foam after the pour. One factor to consider though, is what kind and amount of nubbins, if any, are on the concrete surface caused by depressions designed into the interior surface of the foam blocks, particularly at the joints.  The time spent in knocking them off to give a smooth surface for the channel might be better spent in cutting the foam before the pour. My only concern is the potential weakness you create in the wall of blocks that you have to compensate for with whatever you use to cover the gap.

As always, there is no one single correct answer. There is only the best answer for one's specific circumstances! And the responsibility to determine that rests on your shoulders. Hopefully, the comments offered here provide good guidance to help you out.



Even a retired engineer can build a house successfully w/ GBT help!
aa_ukUser is Offline
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05 Apr 2010 03:00 PM

Good point about the surface of the blocks.  I am probably going to use Nudura which is covered in dovetail like shapes.  It might be a bit of a nightmare to clean off!

Coach screws look like this http://www.fastfixdirect.co.uk/code...tegoryID=6.  I think that you call them lag screws.

Two nations divided by a common language!

 



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