... If anyone out there had some indication of the volume of ICF sales in the Vancouver area of BC, Canada. I have heard theat this is one of the toughest markets in North America to build in because of: - Earthquake zone - Wind driving moisture - And the Goverment promoting the use of wood.... Any comments??

To push wood, the BC Government's recent change in the building code allows 6 storey wood frame structures. I would not like to be a firefighter, a resident, or an owner of something like that! The aspect of the wind driven rain is also a wood structure's worst nightmare. Have people completely forgotten about the millions of $$ spent on the "Condo Rot" cases in BC? I would also think that the wind loads and siesmic requirements to build wood that high would make it uncompetitive (a Simpson salesman's dream) and I have no clue about the insurance costs on something like that, but they have to be a lot higher.  I just see a ton of downsides, but I may be biased...

We have a customer in Portland, Oregon that built a 60,000 square foot 4 storey back in 2003. The ICF construction saves them about $2,800 per month in HVAC costs. They figured it cost them $150,000 more to build with ICF than with wood. As of now, they have now owned and operated this building for 84 months. So, they have saved over $232,000. And these savings will continue; saving money can be so mundane... No rot, very quiet, safe in earthquakes, etc. It is Assisted Living, and they needed 3 and 4 hour fire ratings, which were very simple with ICF. ICF is fine in these siesmic zones, but you need proper engineering-not overkill engineering.

If you get competent engineering, and a good build team, ICF does not have to cost a fortune, so there are a number of good reasons to go with ICF in BC. I think sales are pretty good there. Quad Lock is HQ'd there, and there are ICF moulding plants in Chilliwack. Contact the BC Ready Mix Concrete Association (BCRMCA) for further information.

The vast majority of BC builders are, sadly, still stuck in mindset where nailing wet wood together in the rain (and then stuffing it with wet pink 'glass insulation') with a resulting R value of about 12 if they are painstaking in the stuffing is the way to go. I was building with ICF's in Europe (Isorast and Beco blocks) way back in the 80's and when I immigrated to BC ('92) , I tried to build a house with ICFs but gave up when I couldn't get an architect or builder to even listen to my ideas.

While building my first house here I received a lift of 200 pieces of 2 by 6 fir and recall returning over half as being in my mind unsuitable to build with. It was horror story!

I know a local builder who told me then 'My father would turn over in his grave if I stopped using wood' He still builds with stick-frame in 2010, although he now sprays soy based foam in as insulation (the studs still have 'piss poor' insulation, but what the heck). And, I guess he loves sticking building paper on the outside, plastic on the inside with acoustic goo all over it and the studs to stop air incursion etc ( all not needed with ICFs) The lack of uptake of ICF based building in BC has nothing to do with it being an earthquake zone or wind driving moisture, it is just woeful ignorance on the part of BC builders.

BTW Quadlock is not only HQ'd in BC (Surrey, Vancouver) they also have their moulding plant there. I'm planning a netzero house in Osoyoos at present, and it will definitely be built using Quadlock, both for walls and flat roof.

Thank you for your responses! Coiln.... Nudura is also available in the Okanagan, distributed by a company called AcuTruss. Yes.... they will also want to supply you with your roof & floor systems.... And they can calculate the reinforcement requirements for your lintels.... Just want to make you aware of different icf choices.... I've been in the industry for 19 yrs & I get excellent results using the Nudura brand....

Thanks for the information on the Nudura brand, yes I'm aware of it and I do like the way it hinges to 'flat pack'. I've seen it in use in Revelstoke, though it was yet another ICF foundation/basement, stick frame above ground job... I don't know where it is made though and a search of their website gives no indication. The question was about Vancouver, and so I mentioned Quadlock specifically because their manufacturing plant is in that area.. And they too have 'in house' engineers and architect/detailer for building with Quadlock.

Another reason for me to use Quadlock is that it is Canadian and I am trying to source all my materials from Canada!

I was amused to read on the Nudura site references to 'poored concrete' and phrases like 'during the poor'...! Poor them, they should at least know that you pour liquid! (Grin)...

colin,

FYI - NUDURA is made both in Canada and the US -- it originated in Canada. All of your material would come from Barrie. If spelling errors exist on the website --- I will make sure they know and appreciate your pointing them out. Regarding your selection of ICF -- good luck with that one -- NUDURA has no ICF equal. Regards.

Colin, Nudura also has an "optimum measurements chart" that the area distributor can send to you that can help speed up construction, eleminating "stack seams"....

Posted By colinmcc on 15 Jun 2010 10:11 PM
The vast majority of BC builders are, sadly, still stuck in mindset where nailing wet wood together in the rain (and then stuffing it with wet pink 'glass insulation') with a resulting R value of about 12 if they are painstaking in the stuffing is the way to go. I was building with ICF's in Europe (Isorast and Beco blocks) way back in the 80's and when I immigrated to BC ('92) , I tried to build a house with ICFs but gave up when I couldn't get an architect or builder to even listen to my ideas.

While building my first house here I received a lift of 200 pieces of 2 by 6 fir and recall returning over half as being in my mind unsuitable to build with. It was horror story!

I know a local builder who told me then 'My father would turn over in his grave if I stopped using wood' He still builds with stick-frame in 2010, although he now sprays soy based foam in as insulation (the studs still have 'piss poor' insulation, but what the heck). And, I guess he loves sticking building paper on the outside, plastic on the inside with acoustic goo all over it and the studs to stop air incursion etc ( all not needed with ICFs) The lack of uptake of ICF based building in BC has nothing to do with it being an earthquake zone or wind driving moisture, it is just woeful ignorance on the part of BC builders.

BTW Quadlock is not only HQ'd in BC (Surrey, Vancouver) they also have their moulding plant there. I'm planning a netzero house in Osoyoos at present, and it will definitely be built using Quadlock, both for walls and flat roof.

Collin,

It seems to me you have selected the right product. If you go to their website you will see that Quad-Lock is a fully ISO 9001:2008 certified company. In plain English this means quality. I dont think any other ICF has it?
2pcf foam and highest R-value...
Also they are the only ones that are ISO 14001:2004 certified. This means they are environmental freaks.