I am interested in how to best complete a beam insertion/pocket in icf.  I am building a 2100sq ft house with a full 9' basement and 9' main all out of icf.  I understand how to go about placing a beam pocket if I were doing a wood main floor with joist resting on the icf basement, but how do I best do it when the joist will be hanging from the icf wall and will need to rest on a steel beam which I need to place into the icf wall.

do I make an extra long (high) beam pocket so that I can do my first pour up to the top level of my 1st level floor and then drop in the beam in place and then the concrete from my next pour will cover the beam, or

do I have to place my beam in prior to the pour.

Please advise

Thanks

jojo,
Here are a couple of things to consider (and questions): Engineering aside (and I recommend it if you don't have it already) -- why the beam in inside the ICF wall? I"ve done this a number of times and (as designed) but believe it's overkill. You could set it on the wall have have a 300 gallon aquarium on top and it wouldn't make any difference. Why not set your joist on the wall? If you have doubts see about adding a couple of vertical #8 to that section of wall and put stirrups around them.

How is the joist hanging from the ICF if it's sitting on a beam inside the ICF?

If you want to proceed with the beam, don't bother with the high pocket and don't try to put the beam in after the concrete - not a good idea. Let's say your doing 6" concrete -- you will make a buck for your pocket say 6" x 12" (use ripped treated 2x8") so that it can sit inside your wall (don't cut foam on the outside as you would for a window) use a 2x4 on the bottom so that you can see that the concrete is fully consolidated (vibrated) around the beam (or better rebar). Pour your typical 4' or so per hour and fill it up to your 1st floor pour height. Vibrate a little extra hard around the beam (or rebar). Regards.

not sure if I am not understanding or I did not make myself clear in my first post.  The reason I am looking at putting a steel beam with the ends resting in the icf wall is because the steel beam will be used to support the floor joists because the span is to great to simply attach the floor joists each wall.  because of the span I will need one or two beams at various points so that the joists can rest on the beam for support as well as being attached to the icf.  I will not be resting the joists on the icf because I am making the entire house out of ICF and want icf all the way up with no exterior breaks.  The questions on the beam pocket is because I will need to have the been lower than joists and I want to be able to put both the joists and beam in after the first pour thus the beam pocket would need to be lower than the joist attachment points and thus the concrete would be higher than the beam pocket. 

Hopefully this is a little more clear.

jojo, My mistake - somehow i thought you were taking about putting a column inside the ICF wall. I would make the pocket as I explained earlier but to avoid making it "TALL" so that you can place your beam -- instead cut out the foam on ONE side only so that the beam can slip into that side and come back to set on each appropriately. Save the piece of foam on the cut out side and replace it.

Posted By jojo12 on 27 Dec 2010 04:30 PM
I am interested in how to best complete a beam insertion/pocket in icf.  I am building a 2100sq ft house with a full 9' basement and 9' main all out of icf.  I understand how to go about placing a beam pocket if I were doing a wood main floor with joist resting on the icf basement, but how do I best do it when the joist will be hanging from the icf wall and will need to rest on a steel beam which I need to place into the icf wall.

Just curious. How long are the spans for the joists and the steel beams? Are you wanting full clear space in the basement, or will you have some support columns under the steel beam? I'm thinking that w/ that size house you may have such a long span the steel beam will have to be pretty deep, seriously interfering w/ your headroom in the basement. You may want to look at hanging the joists from the steel beam rather than resting them on top. Will this be a single story, two story, or single story with room space in the attic? Everything you're building above the beam affects how stout the beam has to be.

I am just in the final stages of my plan.  The basement will not be entire clearspan there will be some support posts.  I am just drafting the basement layout as we speak, but I have considered the headroom issue and I do not think it will be an issue,  I dont want to attach the joists directly to the side of the steel beam for two reasons, 1) just that much extra work and playing around, and 2) the beam depth which I assume will be somewhere between 14 and 16 inches will be a good place for a bulkhead so that I can run hvac through the bulkhead.  The final size of the beam will be determined by the floor and rafter engineers, but not to worried because I have a neighbor that built on with not to much difference in span and similar loading characteristics and the beam was 14 inches.  Given the basement will be 9.2" to the bottom of the joists even with the beam I should still have 7.5 to just under 8' of headroom.

Sounds like you got it covered pretty good!

thanks, I am sure I will have more questions but was not sure on the best way for placing the beam in the icf in this circumstance. TexasICF's comment will work but I think that the beam pocket would need to be made oversized because in order for the beam to slide into it, it is going to have to come in at a slight angle, which would necessitate a larger opening than otherwise. I was just hoping to do it in a way in which I would leave the exterior IFC intact and without an oversized beam pocket when done without to much hassle?

Have you checked code requirements? You may need to plan on protecting the steel from direct contact with the concrete. If so, you'll need to factor that into your plans. Protection could be any of several methods, including boxing in with PT lumber.

Our beam pockets are 2" larger than the beam dimensions to allow for some wiggle room as the crane set them. We made the inserts out of 2x4's and block scraps then put a piece of OSB over them to hold them in place during the pour. We set the beam and used the cut pieces and a couple of cans of foam to plug the holes on the outside.