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Posted By ICFconstruction on 31 Dec 2010 10:31 AM
If it is choice between complicated design and quality of the structure, why is there a question?
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I don't understand your comment? If 3 non-90 degree corners make this a complicated design and not appropriate for ICF, then I defiately need to go conventional.

GregW, I'm not sure what Brad's referring to either. As mentioned above, the design that you've described is very vanilla. An experienced ICF installer will have no problems at all.

Greg,

I apologize for how off track this thread has become.  The ICF portion of what you describe is very simple (it's not a box but it's a simple job).  Perhaps a 3 out of ten.  However, you should be careful (which may be what ICFconstruction is alluding to) --- your framer, sheetrocker, roofer may see this as an opportunity to charge more due to the odd angles etc.

I've attached a picture of a medium level complexity job for comparison (I call this a 6 out of 10 in complexity).   This is Nudura at Fort Bragg.  Regards.

One more example:

Posted By ICFconstruction on 31 Dec 2010 10:31 AM
If it is choice between complicated design and quality of the structure, why is there a question?

I asked this because of what Gregw said
"I know that the ICF is better but in a 950sf house, one ICF and the other using standard basement and EEBA advanced framing technique, (3" spray-on polyurethane). What kind of cost difference would there be and how long is the pay back. Opinions?"
If you know ICF is better but concerned about the cost difference, make it simpler, simpler is cheaper for all the trades that will work on the house.
Regarding payback for the homeowner, it does not pay for itself in the long run. You get the benefits of a safer, more comfortable home with little, if any, additional cost right from the beginning (unless you pay cash). That is because your mortgage is a monthly expense just like your utilities. And utilities costs will likely rise, whereas a fixed rate mortgage does not. Besides the energy efficiency is only part of the benefits, in my opinion number two or three.

Brad,

I agree with you entirely on safer, more comfortable, better etc. etc. But did I read correctly that you believe that ICF doesn't pay for itself in the long run? If you use the banks money it is not uncommon that the house actually costs less (PER MONTH) to live in. for simplicity ... say $10K added to the note (which might add $60 per month to your mortgage). If your energy savings are $100 per month - you're $40 per month ahead for as long as you own the house (with today's utiliy costs).

Using our $10K additional cost example: If you pay out of pocket then your payback is 100 months or a little over 8 years.

That said, there are technologies out there that don't have a payback. Speaking from personal experience I don't believe ICF is one of them. Regards.